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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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EFLtrainer wrote: |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
EFLtrainer wrote: |
Let me see... tapes from three years before the invasion are evidence that weapons were in Iraq at the time of the invasion??? Even though exactly zero have been found to date, three years after the invasion was launched?
If the dates on these tapes were post-2003, you'd have my attention. Given they are not, you have only my laughing at you for being such a Bush apologist that reality cannot penetrate. |
Doesn't sound much like a guy who intended to give up his quest for WMDs, or give up his war. |
Say someting relevant, Joo. The facts are simple: Bush claimed he had them, but none have been found. Whether he had them or not, Bush was going to war, so it's not even a valid argument anymore. Too mnay memos have come up that show conclusively Bush engineered this war.
Get over it. He's a war criminal, plain and simple. |
Saddam had WMDs he used them against his own population. And he deceived the UN inspectors for years sounds like a reasonable thing to believe that Saddam had them.
Regime change was the policy of the previous administration. Do you have any evidence that shows that Bush thinks that Saddam did not have WMD's? Didn't think so.
Besides since Saddam never gave up his is war the US war was understandable.
Anyway the US was already at war with Saddam before Bush came to office the US was just hitting back.
Not a war criminal , sorry. If he is why is he not on trial in the US?
Bathists , Khomeni followers and Bin Laden followers are fascists and really have no right to exist.
As usually you are in denial. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 2:37 am Post subject: |
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EFLtrainer wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
EFLtrainer wrote: |
Let me see... tapes from three years before the invasion are evidence that weapons were in Iraq at the time of the invasion??? Even though exactly zero have been found to date, three years after the invasion was launched?
(1) If the dates on these tapes were post-2003, you'd have my attention. Given they are not, you have only my laughing at you for being such a Bush apologist that reality cannot penetrate. |
(1) Exactly how could the dates on these tapes be post-2003? That's when the country was invaded. Nothing like setting up impossible conditions in order not to believe inconvienent information. |
Wow. Your post dropped the world's IQ. Read my post again. Your response was nonsense. Literally. |
Translation (Of what you said): Your post destroyed my argument completely so I will just call it nonsense and hope nobody else calls me on it. |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:05 am Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Saddam had WMDs |
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Regime change was the policy of the previous administration. Do you have any evidence that shows that Bush thinks that Saddam did not have WMD's? Didn't think so. |
1. Why do you ahve to MAKE UP evidence if you HAVE evidence????
2. It doesn't MATTER because he was going to war EITHER WAY. This is a WAR CRIME: to send Americans to their deaths, to purposely kill tens of thousands - if not hundreds of thousands - for nothing more than PERSONAL ANIMOSITY is the very essence of treason.
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Anyway the US was already at war with Saddam before Bush came to office the US was just hitting back. |
Same idiotic DRIVEL.
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Not a war criminal , sorry. If he is why is he not on trial in the US? |
OH MY FRICKING GOD. |
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EFLtrainer

Joined: 04 May 2005
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 9:08 am Post subject: |
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TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
EFLtrainer wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
EFLtrainer wrote: |
Let me see... tapes from three years before the invasion are evidence that weapons were in Iraq at the time of the invasion??? Even though exactly zero have been found to date, three years after the invasion was launched?
(1) If the dates on these tapes were post-2003, you'd have my attention. Given they are not, you have only my laughing at you for being such a Bush apologist that reality cannot penetrate. |
(1) Exactly how could the dates on these tapes be post-2003? That's when the country was invaded. Nothing like setting up impossible conditions in order not to believe inconvienent information. |
Wow. Your post dropped the world's IQ. Read my post again. Your response was nonsense. Literally. |
Translation (Of what you said): Your post destroyed my argument completely so I will just call it nonsense and hope nobody else calls me on it. |
TUM, you've said nothing of any use whatsoever on this thread. Ypu've not even come close. It's somewhat surprisin: you usually put up a fight in the sense that you are somewhat logical, if foolish. The chips are stacked so high against Bush at this point the best you can do is stick out your tongue at the opposition. One can only dream that this awakening from the nightmare will result in a sea change in Congress. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 11:08 am Post subject: |
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1. Why do you ahve to MAKE UP evidence if you HAVE evidence???? |
Make up evidence?
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2. It doesn't MATTER because he was going to war EITHER WAY. |
After 9-11 the US decided to invade Iraq.
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, to purposely kill tens of thousands - if not hundreds of thousands - for nothing more than PERSONAL ANIMOSITY is the very essence of treason. |
Saddam was one of the great killers in the history of the world. He killed 300,000 in his 30 years in power , and would have killed more than that were he not contained -and it was only the US who did the containing for the most part. What was was he going to do in the next 30, and lets remember that is sons were coming up next. anyone who opposes the Iraq war on humanitarian grounds is either disingenious or ignorant.
Which are you?
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for nothing more than PERSONAL ANIMOSITY |
Where is your proof of that?
S Arabia 'real reason for war'
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FORGET Iraq's weapons of mass destruction (WMD). The real reason the United States invaded Iraq was Saudi Arabia, according to a US intelligence analyst.
Dr George Friedman, chairman of the United States private sector intelligence company Stratfor, said the US had settled on WMD as a simple justification for the war and one which it expected the public would readily accept.
Dr Friedman, in Australia on a business trip, said the US administration never wanted to explain the complex reasons for invading Iraq, keeping them from both the public and their closest supporters.
"That, primarily, was the fact that Saudi Arabia was facilitating the transfer of funds to al-Qaeda, was refusing to cooperate with the US and believed in its heart of hearts that the US would never take any action against them," he said.
Dr Friedman said the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks on the US prompted the strategy to hunt down al-Qaeda wherever it was to be found. But that proved exceedingly difficult.
"The US was desperate. There were no good policy choices," he said.
"Then the US turned to the question - we can't find al-Qaeda so how can we stop the enablers of al-Qaeda."
He said those enablers, the financiers and recruiters, existed in Pakistan and Saudi Arabia.
But the Saudi government variously took the view that this wasn't true or that they lacked the ability and strength to act, he said.
Dr Friedman said in March last year, the Saudis responded to US pressure by asking the US to remove all its forces and bases from their territory. To their immense surprise, the US did just that, relocating to Qatar.
He said Saudi Arabia and al-Qaeda shared a number of beliefs including that the US could not fight and win a war in the region and was casualty averse. There was a need to change that perception.
But close by was Iraq, the most strategically located nation in the Middle East, bordering Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Jordan, Turkey and Iran.
"If we held Iraq we felt first there would be dramatic changes of behaviour from the Saudis," he said. "We could also manipulate the Iranians into a change of policy and finally also lean on the Syrians.
"It wasn't a great policy. It happened to be the only policy available."
Dr Friedman said US President George W Bush faced the difficulty of explaining this policy, particularly to the Saudis. Moves to link Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda failed completely.
"They then fell on WMD for two reasons," he said.
"Nobody could object to WMD and it was the one thing that every intelligence agency knew was true.
"We knew we were going to find them. And we would never have to reveal the real reasons.
"The massive intelligence failure was that everybody including Saddam thought he had WMD. He behaved as if he had WMD. He was conned by his own people." |
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Same idiotic DRIVEL. |
??
Saddam was not at war with the US before 9-11?
He shot at US planes , tried to kill a US president. supported terrorists. continuously threatened nations strategic to the US while he never gave up trying to conquer the gulf. - pinning the US in the region . His regime taught hate and incited violence.
Not at war? Denial. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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http://hotstory.nationaljournal.com/articles/0302nj1.htm
ADMINISTRATION
What Bush Was Told About Iraq
By Murray Waas, National Journal
© National Journal Group Inc.
Thursday, March 2, 2006
Two highly classified intelligence reports delivered directly to President Bush before the Iraq war cast doubt on key public assertions made by the president, Vice President Cheney, and other administration officials as justifications for invading Iraq and toppling Saddam Hussein, according to records and knowledgeable sources.
The president received highly classified intelligence reports containing information at odds with his justifications for going to war.
The first report, delivered to Bush in early October 2002, was a one-page summary of a National Intelligence Estimate that discussed whether Saddam's procurement of high-strength aluminum tubes was for the purpose of developing a nuclear weapon.
Among other things, the report stated that the Energy Department and the State Department's Bureau of Intelligence and Research believed that the tubes were "intended for conventional weapons," a view disagreeing with that of other intelligence agencies, including the CIA, which believed that the tubes were intended for a nuclear bomb.
The disclosure that Bush was informed of the DOE and State dissents is the first evidence that the president himself knew of the sharp debate within the government over the aluminum tubes during the time that he, Cheney, and other members of the Cabinet were citing the tubes as clear evidence of an Iraqi nuclear program. Neither the president nor the vice president told the public about the disagreement among the agencies.
When U.S. inspectors entered Iraq after the fall of Saddam's regime, they determined that Iraq's nuclear program had been dormant for more than a decade and that the aluminum tubes had been used only for artillery shells.
The second classified report, delivered to Bush in early January 2003, was also a summary of a National Intelligence Estimate, this one focusing on whether Saddam would launch an unprovoked attack on the United States, either directly, or indirectly by working with terrorists.
The report stated that U.S. intelligence agencies unanimously agreed that it was unlikely that Saddam would try to attack the United States -- except if "ongoing military operations risked the imminent demise of his regime" or if he intended to "extract revenge" for such an assault, according to records and sources.
The single dissent in the report again came from State's Bureau of Intelligence and Research, known as INR, which believed that the Iraqi leader was "unlikely to conduct clandestine attacks against the U.S. homeland even if [his] regime's demise is imminent" as the result of a U.S. invasion.
On at least four earlier occasions, beginning in the spring of 2002, according to the same records and sources, the president was informed during his morning intelligence briefing that U.S. intelligence agencies believed it was unlikely that Saddam was an imminent threat to the United States. |
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laogaiguk

Joined: 06 Dec 2005 Location: somewhere in Korea
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Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
Saddam was one of the great killers in the history of the world. He killed 300,000 in his 30 years in power , and would have killed more than that were he not contained -and it was only the US who did the containing for the most part. What was was he going to do in the next 30, and lets remember that is sons were coming up next. anyone who opposes the Iraq war on humanitarian grounds is either disingenious or ignorant.
Which are you?
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I don't really care about the rest, and I am glad Saddam is gone for the exact reason stated above, but this is the only thing that bothers me about invasion reasons. If the American government cared AT ALL about the humanitarian side of it, they would have invaded North Korea or any of the lot of African states seeing hundreds of thousands of people dying or being displaced (some of the rapings and torture going on there is truly horrible). Argue for terrorism, oil, WMD's or Saddam pissing off Bush senior (some reasons for each side there), but humanitarian reasons was not a consideration for the war. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:24 am Post subject: |
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laogaiguk wrote: |
[
I don't really care about the rest, and I am glad Saddam is gone for the exact reason stated above, but this is the only thing that bothers me about invasion reasons. If the American government cared AT ALL about the humanitarian side of it, they would have invaded North Korea or any of the lot of African states seeing hundreds of thousands of people dying or being displaced (some of the rapings and torture going on there is truly horrible). Argue for terrorism, oil, WMD's or Saddam pissing off Bush senior (some reasons for each side there), but humanitarian reasons was not a consideration for the war. |
The US did not invade Iraq primarily because of humanitarian reasons.
However those who oppose the war out of humanitarian reason are either being disingenuous or are ignorant. That was the point.
In 30 years in power Saddam killed 300,000 Iraqis, and would have killed many more were he not contained. What was he going to do over the next 30 years? Remember his sons were coming up next.
Saddam was even worse than Idi Amin
THERE IS NO HUMANITARIAN CASE AGAINST THE WAR. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 1:24 am Post subject: |
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Actually, there is --
civil war. But hey, who could have really predicted that anyway?
Just as a back-of-the-envelope calculation:
Saddam was in power for approximately 11,000 days, and in that time he was responsible for about 300,000 murders. That makes for a rate of a bit under 27.3 per day.
Using figures from http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ , we can see in the 3 years since the invasion, at least 28,591 civilians have died, a rate of 26.11 per day.
The last week, which many intelligent observers have described as the beginning of civil war, has seen over 1,300 deaths, a rate of a bit over 185 per day. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:26 am Post subject: |
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EFLtrainer wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
EFLtrainer wrote: |
TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
EFLtrainer wrote: |
Let me see... tapes from three years before the invasion are evidence that weapons were in Iraq at the time of the invasion??? Even though exactly zero have been found to date, three years after the invasion was launched?
(1) If the dates on these tapes were post-2003, you'd have my attention. Given they are not, you have only my laughing at you for being such a Bush apologist that reality cannot penetrate. |
(1) Exactly how could the dates on these tapes be post-2003? That's when the country was invaded. Nothing like setting up impossible conditions in order not to believe inconvienent information. |
Wow. Your post dropped the world's IQ. Read my post again. Your response was nonsense. Literally. |
Translation (Of what you said): Your post destroyed my argument completely so I will just call it nonsense and hope nobody else calls me on it. |
TUM, you've said nothing of any use whatsoever on this thread. Ypu've not even come close. It's somewhat surprisin: you usually put up a fight in the sense that you are somewhat logical, if foolish. The chips are stacked so high against Bush at this point the best you can do is stick out your tongue at the opposition. One can only dream that this awakening from the nightmare will result in a sea change in Congress. |
I can only believe what I said in my last post, since you have not answered my questions. You said "if the dates on these tapes were post-2003 you'd have my attention" And I pointed out that it would be impossible for the tapes to have been made after 2003 since the country was invaded in 2003 and Saddam was overthrown. The tapes show Saddam and aides discussing WMD in Saddam's headquarters so obviously that discussion could not have taken place in that location post 2003. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 3:41 am Post subject: |
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Hater Depot wrote: |
Actually, there is --
civil war. But hey, who could have really predicted that anyway?
Just as a back-of-the-envelope calculation:
Saddam was in power for approximately 11,000 days, and in that time he was responsible for about 300,000 murders. That makes for a rate of a bit under 27.3 per day.
Using figures from http://www.iraqbodycount.net/ , we can see in the 3 years since the invasion, at least 28,591 civilians have died, a rate of 26.11 per day.
The last week, which many intelligent observers have described as the beginning of civil war, has seen over 1,300 deaths, a rate of a bit over 185 per day. |
No their isn't Saddam would have killed many more than he did were not contained by the US. The US could not have maintained containment forever. Figure that into your calculations.
Saddam intended to slaughter the Kurds even more than he did , he also planned to engage in a nuclear war with Israel, he also never gave up trying to conquer Kuwait. .
Besides you are charging the US for those killed by the insurgents who are fighting to rule Iraq cause they can't win an election or the Jihadists who are fighting for a fascist Caliphate where those of other faiths would be expelled , made into slaves or killed.
Of course there would be no insurgency were it not for the US action on the other hand you don't see the Kurds and Shias offering to surrender to end it. The point being is that the alternative to the insurgency was preserving the evil regime of Saddam Hussein
Besides Saddam killed more than 300,000 that was just Iraqis he killed. What would he have done were he allowed to go free? Didn't see the UN trying to contain him, indeed the UN was on his payroll. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 6:00 am Post subject: |
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_human_rights
Ex-Official: Iraq Abuses Growing Worse By ED JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
Thu Mar 2, 9:23 AM ET
SYDNEY, Australia - Human rights abuses in Iraq are as bad now as they were under Saddam Hussein, as lawlessness and sectarian violence sweep the country, the former U.N. human rights chief in Iraq said Thursday.
John Pace, who last month left his post as director of the human rights office at the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq, said the level of extra-judicial executions and torture is soaring, and morgue workers are being threatened by both government-backed militia and insurgents not to properly investigate deaths.
"Under Saddam, if you agreed to forgo your basic right to freedom of expression and thought, you were physically more or less OK," Pace said in an interview with The Associated Press. "But now, no. Here, you have a primitive, chaotic situation where anybody can do anything they want to anyone."
Pace, who was born in Malta but now resides in Australia, said that while the scale of atrocity under Saddam was "daunting," now nobody is safe from abuse.
"It is certainly as bad," he said. "It extends over a much wider section of the population than it did under Saddam." |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005 Location: Next to a River
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:06 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Dr George Friedman, chairman of the United States private sector intelligence company Stratfor, said the US had settled on WMD as a simple justification for the war and one which it expected the public would readily accept.
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Its now good to read evidence that I wasn't the only one to think that. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee

Joined: 25 May 2003
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:35 am Post subject: |
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some waygug-in wrote: |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060302/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iraq_human_rights
Ex-Official: Iraq Abuses Growing Worse By ED JOHNSON, Associated Press Writer
Thu Mar 2, 9:23 AM ET
SYDNEY, Australia - Human rights abuses in Iraq are as bad now as they were under Saddam Hussein, as lawlessness and sectarian violence sweep the country, the former U.N. human rights chief in Iraq said Thursday.
John Pace, who last month left his post as director of the human rights office at the U.N. Assistance Mission for Iraq, said the level of extra-judicial executions and torture is soaring, and morgue workers are being threatened by both government-backed militia and insurgents not to properly investigate deaths.
"Under Saddam, if you agreed to forgo your basic right to freedom of expression and thought, you were physically more or less OK," Pace said in an interview with The Associated Press. "But now, no. Here, you have a primitive, chaotic situation where anybody can do anything they want to anyone."
Pace, who was born in Malta but now resides in Australia, said that while the scale of atrocity under Saddam was "daunting," now nobody is safe from abuse.
"It is certainly as bad," he said. "It extends over a much wider section of the population than it did under Saddam." |
Well things could get better they would never under Saddam and his sicko kids - and not only that Saddam was a serial aggressor. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003 Location: Retired
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Posted: Fri Mar 03, 2006 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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some waygug-in wrote: |
"It is certainly as bad," he said. "It extends over a much wider section of the population than it did under Saddam." |
Garbage. Tell that to the Kurds. As other magazines including TIME, Newsweek and The Economist have pointed out, the vast majority of the violence is confined to three provinces. Under Saddam all of Iraq was subject. |
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