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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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 Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:39 pm Post subject: |
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This is what a Korean (?) had to say about that on the Youtube site:
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FXCK ICHIRO
I HOPE NORTH KOREA RIPS HIS BALLS OFF AND STICK IT UP HIS EYE SOCKETS
HAHA HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI GOT NUKED HAHA NO WONDER YOU GUYS HAVE FXCKED UP DNA AND GENES! RADIATION WILL ALWAYS LIVE IN YOUR FXCKIN JAP LIVES AND THEIR FXCKED UP CROOKED ASS TEETH HAHA FXCKIN JAP BITCHES
DAM THEY SHOULDVE NUKED TOKYO ALSO
NORTH KOREA WILL NEVER FREE JAP NIP HOSTAGES!
NORTH KOREA WILL BEHEAD JAP HOSTAGES WITH A PLASTIC 2 INCH KNIFE NIPS |
Do Koreans understand satire? You tell me. |
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Troll_Bait
Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2006 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Son Deureo! wrote: |
The �ȳ� ����ü��ī sitcom poked fun at a lot of elements of Korean culture. The vampires were often used as a way of turning the whole age-hierarchy concept on its head and poking fun at it. It seemed like every episode was satirizing a different element of Korean society, education mania, pushy adjummas, a lot of the same things we make fun of.
���� ����, a comic strip, often pokes fun at different aspects of Korean society that the author was critical of, such as the obsession over Seoul universities, military service, preference for sons, companies forcing their employees into retirement too young, etc.
Gag Concert has a lot of silly slapstick, but in the "news" segments I've seen some satire.
As for Korean standup comics, I see them all the time on the Comedy channel.
Korean sarcasm and satire are out there. |
Any other "Francesca the Vampire" fans out there? |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Demophobe wrote: |
I think it's a throwback to when doing satire would get you in big trouble. Heck, it wasn't all that long ago when public critisism of the government was verboten, was it? Satire would be a form of this, so...
They just grew into that mentality. Laugh at the somehow deficient. Laughing at or making fun of leaders or people percieved as 'better than I' in some respect was (is?) unthinkable. Like making fun of a teacher or walking on their shadow.
They are also a prety proud bunch...they even protected Dr. Hwang after he himself said he lied. Satire kind of pokes holes in your own culture and people, like admitting that there are flaws. I'm not sure if Koreans would take to the kind of satire that could be delivered here. It may just cut too deep for them. |
I think you're going waaay to far with this. Personally, I think Koreans are very iconoclastic. They love protesting, they love muckracking, they love the smell of teargas in the morning, they love watching CEOs led in handcuffs past flashing cameras to waiting police cars.
But by the same token they tend to build up icons very quickly as well. Remember, however, that although there are a few Koreans left defending Hwang, he was brought down by Koreans. I mean really brought down harshly, and rightly so.
My question is, if there was sarcasm in Korea, how many of you could understand it? Not me. Humor is probably the hardest thing to understand in learning language. So much of humor hinges on the slightest nuance.
That said it is true that Koreans seem to have no ear for facetiousness. Is it because they expect anything from foreigners? I dunno. |
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Demophobe
Joined: 17 May 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 12:54 am Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
I think you're going waaay to far with this. Personally, I think Koreans are very iconoclastic. They love protesting, they love muckracking, they love the smell of teargas in the morning, they love watching CEOs led in handcuffs past flashing cameras to waiting police cars.
But by the same token they tend to build up icons very quickly as well. Remember, however, that although there are a few Koreans left defending Hwang, he was brought down by Koreans. I mean really brought down harshly, and rightly so.
My question is, if there was sarcasm in Korea, how many of you could understand it? Not me. Humor is probably the hardest thing to understand in learning language. So much of humor hinges on the slightest nuance.
That said it is true that Koreans seem to have no ear for facetiousness. Is it because they expect anything from foreigners? I dunno. |
Just throwing out some ideas. I don't think it's totally over the top. Indoctrination is common here, and I think that in order for a country and it's people to be able to satirize itself, it has to get over some hurdles. I don't think Korea is at that point yet. Korea may be changing quickly, but I don't think Koreans are.
Satire and sarcasm are different things. Satire would be easier to understand than sarcasm, I will give you that.
Many Koreans still defend Hwang on some grounds...yes, they (a rather elite group; one who could find his errors) brought him down, but that hardly reflects consensus views towards him.
The fact that they love to muckrake, hang some bad guys and protest doesn't mean they are ready to make fun of themselves. I think you underestimate the enormity of Korea's pride and how easily they feel inferior, slighted or being the object of any joke or ridicule, even with perhaps comedic intention.
Just my thought, not a thesis. It is only Dave's.... |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 5:12 am Post subject: |
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| Pyongshin Sangja wrote: |
This is what a Korean (?) had to say about that on the Youtube site:
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FXCK ICHIRO
I HOPE NORTH KOREA RIPS HIS BALLS OFF AND STICK IT UP HIS EYE SOCKETS
HAHA HIROSHIMA AND NAGASAKI GOT NUKED HAHA NO WONDER YOU GUYS HAVE FXCKED UP DNA AND GENES! RADIATION WILL ALWAYS LIVE IN YOUR FXCKIN JAP LIVES AND THEIR FXCKED UP CROOKED ASS TEETH HAHA FXCKIN JAP *beep*
DAM THEY SHOULDVE NUKED TOKYO ALSO
NORTH KOREA WILL NEVER FREE JAP NIP HOSTAGES!
NORTH KOREA WILL BEHEAD JAP HOSTAGES WITH A PLASTIC 2 INCH KNIFE NIPS |
Do Koreans understand satire? You tell me. |
That's such a plain tasteless diss. Btw, Have you ever heard about Otaku-like Kenkan(anti-Korean) Operators? Their hobby's pretty appealing. Basically, their aim is to spread the gospel of hating and degrading Koreans in every possible way online. Some of them are armed with moderate to advanced knowledge of a foreign language or two and disguise themselves as Koreans who say stupid things on the Internet message boards. Their active areas are known to be very diverse from Japanese message boards such as the big 2CH(the motherland/mecca of all Japanese trolls and racists with their 'honne' in full force. Although they should be in a small minority even among the anti-Korean Japanese netizens, one mudfish can stir up the whole brook), Chinese forums, English sports forums to even Korean ones. (and maybe here too?  ) Some of them who got excellent Korean skills even blatantly post on Korean boards to inflame but usually they reveal themselves by subtly weird word choices, etc. You know, Korean netizens are ����-like and make random rants about Japan but I think they rarely prepare and do such organized play. We just have to be aware of many possibilities before jumping into whatever we want to believe. And even if it was a Korean who wrote that, that has nothing to do with how s/he understood the clip. S/he just wrote that as it's simply a Japan-related one, nothing more. Satire is dz�� in Korean and it's been there for long. I think Koreans especially love parodies. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 8:14 am Post subject: |
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Many Koreans still defend Hwang on some grounds...yes, they (a rather elite group; one who could find his errors) brought him down, but that hardly reflects consensus views towards him.
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I don't get the impression that very many people are defending Hwang anymore. Apart from his minicult, the guys who run around disrupting conferences to show their loyalty to Hwang, it seems to me that most people have accepted that he lied.
Which isn't to say that Koreans are revelling in the guy's demise, the way American liberals might have when Nixon went down. I think most Koreans would probably still prefer it if Hwang were innocent; they just realize that that there's no possible way to argue he is.
As I see it, the Hwang Affair is nothing remotely like the martyred schoolgirls or even Ono. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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A number of years ago a Korean President (maybe it was Roh) actually had to give Korean comedians permission to make fun of him. He later withdrew that permission when they actually started to make fun of him.
Satire means stepping outside of the group think and making fun of cherished ideas. While the average North American gets that The Simpsons is a satirical look at the cherished notion of the nuclear family, I don't think the average Korean would tolerate or understand the same. It would be a betrayal of the great, unified Korean people. |
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doggyji
Joined: 21 Feb 2006
Location: Toronto - Hamilton - Vineland - St. Catherines
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
A number of years ago a Korean President (maybe it was Roh) actually had to give Korean comedians permission to make fun of him. He later withdrew that permission when they actually started to make fun of him.
Satire means stepping outside of the group think and making fun of cherished ideas. While the average North American gets that The Simpsons is a satirical look at the cherished notion of the nuclear family, I don't think the average Korean would tolerate or understand the same. It would be a betrayal of the great, unified Korean people. |
Even these days you even need some sort of permission to make fun of the president? That means if you are not given the permission and go on with your jokes, you will be punished by the authority? Are you sure? I think Kim Youngsam was the first top head of the country who Koreans began to make light of. (the advent of ��������) I remember YS jokes were popular back then. He was even turned into a game character. Yeah, it's hard to see those comedians truly make fun of the presidents though. They usually just imitate those presidents' funny typical speech styles(������) rather than deliberately touch their political stances. This somehow reminds me of the "media lead the public vs. the other way around" issue. I think it's rarely shown on the Korean TV simply because they think the audience will have less fun from political satire than from other forms of humor. I don't think Koreans would have problem getting satire about, say, the cherished notion of the nuclear family or whatever on Korean TV shows. At least not the young people. It's just that they just don't make such satire.
IMO, what Koreans really don't like is when the 'foreign media' make fun of them. Koreans generally think they are seriously misunderstood or unknown by the foreign public and such jokes about them(dogmeat joke as an example) will enhance the (negative) prejudice against them. It's different when you are already so much well-known and got the status. You can just sit back and laugh along then. Some people always wonder why Koreans so much want to be 'better known' in the world. Look at the neighbours. It's an instinct. Korea often wants other countries' support to be against them. Look at those Korea vs. Japan disputes. What country would you (subconciously) be in favor of? Japanese sushi, anime and tea sets or Korean dogmeat? This sounds illogical and you are likely to determine based on objective information but I think this is one possible aspect of the subconcious world. Pure pleasure can come out only when you can truly take it light-hearted and you are free of chips. Ironically, some Korean comedians made fun of people from some poor countries and it was accused a while ago.
By the way, if you want to look at the traditional aspect of Korean satire, take an example of Bongsan Mask Dancein which the low class dancers dare made fun of the Yangban class. Enough info on Google. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Korean satire- does it exist? |
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That was a great video! I love the part about them wearing the sushi board as shoes around the house, and licking the salt in the dish by the door. Haha! |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 2:59 am Post subject: |
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Doggy wrote:
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| Even these days you even need some sort of permission to make fun of the president? That means if you are not given the permission and go on with your jokes, you will be punished by the authority? |
Yeah, can you believe how backwards these Koreans are?
Now, over in the Land Of Englihtenment and no-holds-barred critical thought...
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Under French law it is a criminal offence to insult the president, carrying a fine of up to 45,000 euros (£30,000).
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http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,919003,00.html |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: |
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By the way, if you want to look at the traditional aspect of Korean satire, take an example of Bongsan Mask Dancein which the low class dancers dare made fun of the Yangban class. Enough info on Google.
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I wonder if anyone here has seen the movie Memories Of Murder. It presents an acerbic view of small-town Korean life that makes the worst whiner on Dave's look like a slobbering apologist.
Mind you, that's set during the dictatorship. A friend of mine has observed that Koreans probably feel more comfortable with self-directed satire when the targets are presented as living in the past. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| JongnoGuru wrote: |
| Korea has no problem poking fun at other countries, cultures and races. That's a lost art in much of the West. |
It'd be even greater if they could take it themselves though. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:43 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
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By the way, if you want to look at the traditional aspect of Korean satire, take an example of Bongsan Mask Dancein which the low class dancers dare made fun of the Yangban class. Enough info on Google.
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I wonder if anyone here has seen the movie Memories Of Murder. It presents an acerbic view of small-town Korean life that makes the worst whiner on Dave's look like a slobbering apologist.
Mind you, that's set during the dictatorship. A friend of mine has observed that Koreans probably feel more comfortable with self-directed satire when the targets are presented as living in the past. |
Exactly what I was thinking. Or when the targets are literally "in the past" (dead). Every society will set its own limits as to what is lampoonable, what isn't. And even the free-wheeling, anything-goes West has its own taboos. Indeed, with the rise of Political Correctness, the no-go areas in the West seem as if they're growing, the "go-able" areas shrinking. Or is it perhaps just an agenda-driven redefining of acceptable/non-acceptable satire, humour, even normal speech?
But Korean society seems to prescribe for itself far narrower limits on expression & introspection in certain respects. Of course this differs from the limits of outright government suppression of freedoms of speech & press, and as Doggyji said above, it's been a few administrations now since joking about the president would land the average Korean in hot water. That's a transformation I personally watched, and I can attest to what Demophobe was saying earlier: Even though the jackboot of miltary dictatorship was lifted from the throats of its would-be critics long ago, those days are still alive in a sense -- not only in terms of firsthand "been there, done that" living memories of most adult Koreans (and many foreigners) today, but also in terms of the lasting effects of that era, the lingering mindset that continues to affect Koreans' thinking and behaviour in all sorts of ways... least of all the apparent absence or late blossoming of wild-ass, no-holds-barred, Western-style satire, or whatever it is we're talking about here. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:55 am Post subject: ... |
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My question is, if there was sarcasm in Korea, how many of you could understand it? Not me. Humor is probably the hardest thing to understand in learning language. So much of humor hinges on the slightest nuance.
That said it is true that Koreans seem to have no ear for facetiousness. |
A few things to say:
1) This was brought up while I was in Taiwan. I don't think it's just Korean. It's more Asian.
2) In Taiwan, I was told there is Chinese sarcasm, it's just different from ours.
3) How is that possible? In Thailand, Thai friends taught me the term "mook". It means "pull". If you say something sarcastic and no one gets it, you go "Mook, Mook", which basically means I was just joshin'.
4) Hence, I conclude that sarcasm hinges on delivery, especially when you want to drop it across cultures.
5) Humor is one of the hardest things to translate, period.
6) A website once did a study of what the funniest joke was across cultures. It goes like this:
A man calls 119 (911) and says, "My friend was bitten by a snake while we were hunting. What should I do?"
The operator says: "Ok, sir. First, make sure your friend is dead."
In the background, the operator hears a gunshot.
The man gets back on the phone and says, "OK, now what?" |
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Ilsanman
Joined: 15 Aug 2003
Location: Bucheon, Korea
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:21 am Post subject: yes |
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| I don't think there's much. Satire requires depth, and Korean comedy is about as deep as that puddle of spit down the street. |
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