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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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 Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks a lot: I knew it had risen (I thought they were third, after US amnd UK) and tried to find some stats myself.
Looks like another "Number One". |
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casey's moon
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: Daejeon
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Unreal wrote: |
It was pushing 50% in 2003:
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| ...according to a Ministry of Health and Welfare report the country now has one of the highest divorce rates in the world, with 47.4 percent of marriages ending in divorce. |
From:
Country Reports on Human Rights Practices - 2003
Released by the Bureau of Democracy, Human Rights, and Labor
February 25, 2004
http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27776.htm
I was talking to a teacher at my school who has been divorced for 10 years. In that time she has never told another Korean about her divorce because of the stigma that comes with it. Divorce is widespread...it's just rarely talked about |
Actually that statistic is flawed because of the declining rate of marriage. They were comparing the number of couples married in 2003 with the number of couples divorced in 2003.
The rate of divorce will likely go down again in years to come because less people are getting married. And if suddenly there is a marriage boom one year, the divorce rate will go WAY down, and the following year it may go WAY up.
I'm not sure if I'm making sense but if anyone does understand me but can explain it better -- please do! |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2006 10:45 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, there is another measure often used, simply the number of divorces per 1,000 of population. For example
Country, Divorce/1000, as % of US rate
Korea , 0.88, 17.78%
Canada, 2.46, 49.70%
United Kingdom, 3.08, 62.22%
US, 4.95, 100.00% |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
Yes, there is another measure often used, simply the number of divorces per 1,000 of population. For example
Country, Divorce/1000, as % of US rate
Korea , 0.88, 17.78%
Canada, 2.46, 49.70%
United Kingdom, 3.08, 62.22%
US, 4.95, 100.00% |
Great Googly Moogly! |
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Francis-Pax
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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Happy marriages cannot be found in statistical numbers. Inferring conclusions based on statistical data really does not mean much on the practical level of reality. I think a better approach would be to look at your personal experience.
I personally know several people who are in an international marriage (Korean/Foreign) who are reasonably happy with each other and their relationship. I have also seen the opposite. In America, where I am from, I think the situation is not any different, whether it is 'mixed marriages' or not.
The variables that go into creating a successful marriage are too numerous for us to postulate a formula or to make blanket statements stating that marrying a Korean is a good or bad idea or that it will lead to happiness or unhappiness. Every situation and couple is unique, unrepeatable, and irreplaceable.
The cited statistics just show trends in the sample population. Sociologists and others can then analyze that data to hypothesize the causes for such trends.
I think that it is well established by now that the institution of marriage is in a crisis that has resulted from a materialistic secularism that has weakened peoples capacity to make commitments and give of themselves in ways that may not always lead to their materialistic notions of success, progress, and power.
Perhaps some things that point us in the right direction to happy marriage (in all of its forms) is to come to the realization that it is about sharing, giving, receiving, and sacrifice. To love in this way will surely increase the chances of success.
One problem that I have with a lot of these posts is a kind of logical fallacy due to mathematical reductionism. Human persons cannot be reduced to mere mathematical data. We are social beings and there are ethnographic considerations apart from mathematical analysis that must be investigated as well. Just saying, ��Oh the divorce rate is up in this country, so probably marrying somebody from here is a bad idea,�� is rather immature and illogical.
Last edited by Francis-Pax on Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:42 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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Francis-Pax
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Deleted (the system posted my message twice) |
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Big Boss
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
Location: San Francisco
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 5:56 pm Post subject: Re: Korean Marriages. Happy? |
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| coffeeman wrote: |
I swear I think it's a felony in this country if you are female, 28 years old and not married or male 32 years old and not married. Almost everybody here takes the plunge. But are they happy? How important in love?
In the past year, I've seen 3 twenty-somethings (2 ladies and 1 guy) get married. None of them seemed to be too thrilled about it. They reported it to me without any joy as if it were right up there on the excitement meter with applying for a new passport. What's the deal? I sure hope if I go down that road that I am a little more excited about it than they are. Koreans are strange. Emotional about all the wrong things and totally blase when they should be thrilled.
I get the feeling that most of them do it to please their parents. What are your opinions about Korean couples? |
It is like a tradition where marriage is made to please their parent, especially apply to most East Asia family. Holding banquet to celebrate this joy is just a show off to the relatives and friends and the marriage couple are the world' best actor and actress in this event only. Sad and tiring, but the good thing is, you get alot of gifts from the attending guests in terms of jewels and hard cash. I spend USD$120,000 for my wedding banquet and ceremony in my home-grown town Singapore and received gifts total value of more than USD$190,000. VOW! More than 60% in profit, a good business deal. My Irish-German wife was shocked and ask, "Can we marry again one more time" |
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thekingofdisco
Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 6:17 pm Post subject: |
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The divorce rate is far higher than the statistics say.
As these days it is common not to sign any of the official documents of a marriage - until perhaps 2-5years later.
i.e. married couples are often "not married"!! So if one breaks up before the 5 years, there will be no divorce!
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anyway
Joined: 22 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| I have to go with the religious dude on this one. If we could only return to the strict enforecement of the dowry system (carrot)! Perhaps we can make use of purgatory as well (the stick)? To hell with secular materialism! All those troubadours are in the seventh circle! |
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CaptainConjunction
Joined: 12 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:43 pm Post subject: Re: Korean Marriages. Happy? |
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| coffeeman wrote: |
In the past year, I've seen 3 twenty-somethings (2 ladies and 1 guy) get married. None of them seemed to be too thrilled about it. They reported it to me without any joy as if it were right up there on the excitement meter with applying for a new passport. What's the deal? I sure hope if I go down that road that I am a little more excited about it than they are. Koreans are strange. Emotional about all the wrong things and totally blase when they should be thrilled.
I get the feeling that most of them do it to please their parents. What are your opinions about Korean couples? |
Insert rant here --->
Why would they be thrilled? Let's look at the reality behind a Korean marriage. Firstly, you spend a fortune paying for it and getting the new apartment and all the furniture for it. Sure, your parents may receive lots of money back from the wedding guests, but that money goes to them, not you. Plus there's all the stress to deal with planning the wedding and the stress on the actual day. (not shaming your parents etc.)
Ok, so the wedding is over. They've been waiting all their lives to move out of home so they can have some private time together. Finally! On to the blissful life as a happily married couple! WRONG! They are too busy for that.
Put yourself in the position of the wife. If you are a Korean woman, you can expect to be kept busy in your new position as your mother-in-law's personal slave. Let's not forget that you may be called to cook for and take care of your husband's elder brother(s) families too. It will all be worth it though, because your wonderful husband will be there to love you for it. Oops, wrong again! He's busy 24-7 at the office and out drinking with the boss to get that important promotion so you can pay for your children's trip to Canada to learn English. He's in a terrible mood when he comes home because of work stress, and you are too because you've realised that you just mutated into an AJUMA! Your other ajuma friends told you that their husband just bought a new BMW, but your family is still driving that same old bomb that you bought 10 years ago. Oh, the shame!
A Korean I know of just got married and complained about it. Why? Her husband's family decided they love their son too much to let him move out. No siree, instead they are going to buy a big house and all live together. One happy family! The obvious question that comes to mind is: Will the family allow them to have a normal sex life? Or will their copulation be limited to what the father-in-law deems necessary to produce a new son.
*gasp* Ok, I better cut this rant short. Someone pass me a glass of water.  Feel free to pick holes in my rant. It is a rant after all. |
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Francis-Pax
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 7:44 pm Post subject: |
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| anyway wrote: |
| I have to go with the religious dude on this one. If we could only return to the strict enforecement of the dowry system (carrot)! Perhaps we can make use of purgatory as well (the stick)? To hell with secular materialism! All those troubadours are in the seventh circle! |
Is this a mockery of my post? I didn't make any appeal to religion at all in my last post.
Although it is true that I have theistic belief, it does not follow that I am therefore illogical. I also don't appreciate your immature invocations of Dante to make me sound like my comments are irrelevant because I express a faith image as my avatar.
Perhaps you should check your biases and cease your bigotry. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Francis-Pax wrote: |
| Perhaps some things that point us in the right direction to happy marriage (in all of its forms) is to come to the realization that it is about sharing, giving, receiving, and sacrifice. To love in this way will surely increase the chances of success. |
If your marriage has gotten to the point where you consider doing something for your spouse a 'sacrifice', then doing so will only make you more miserable (and, I contend, if one person is unhappy in a marriage, it cannot be called a successful one).
Doing something for another will only lead to your happiness when you want to do it, and if you want to do it because their happiness is tied to yours, then it is not a sacrifice. |
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Real Reality
Joined: 10 Jan 2003
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
Yes, there is another measure often used, simply the number of divorces per 1,000 of population. For example
Country, Divorce/1000, as % of US rate
Korea , 0.88, 17.78%
Canada, 2.46, 49.70%
United Kingdom, 3.08, 62.22%
US, 4.95, 100.00% |
[....I believe their source was a World Almanac or something similar from 1994 or thereabouts]
http://www.divorcereform.org/nonus.html#anchor5599108
The divorce rate last year was 3 cases for every 1,000 people, government statistics show, up from 2 in 1997. In 2001, the rate was 2.8, which was above the European Union's average of 1.8 and Japan's 2.3, though below the United States' rate of 4.
Divorce in South Korea: Striking a New Attitude
By NORIMITSU ONISHI, New York Times (September 21, 2003)
http://www.mv.helsinki.fi/aleppanen/koreanotes/NYT030921_Divorce_in_South_Korea.htm |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks for the update RR!  |
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Francis-Pax
Joined: 20 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2006 8:26 pm Post subject: |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| Francis-Pax wrote: |
| Perhaps some things that point us in the right direction to happy marriage (in all of its forms) is to come to the realization that it is about sharing, giving, receiving, and sacrifice. To love in this way will surely increase the chances of success. |
If your marriage has gotten to the point where you consider doing something for your spouse a 'sacrifice', then doing so will only make you more miserable (and, I contend, if one person is unhappy in a marriage, it cannot be called a successful one).
Doing something for another will only lead to your happiness when you want to do it, and if you want to do it because their happiness is tied to yours, then it is not a sacrifice. |
I totally disagree with you.
First, marriage does require - at times -- sacifice. What successful relationship does not require one partner giving up something for the sake of the other? Sacrifice does not necessarily mean something negative, and your immideate association of negative connotations to that word is an example of the overwealming selfish "ONLY ME - I" attitude that is dominant in many areas of the western world. I am actually very surprised that you think sacrifice is not a word that is appropriate to a discussion on marriage and family. What about children? How many parents have given up something they wanted for the sake of their children? Sacrifice in this sense is an expression of love. It is done willingly because is out of love for the other, a love that puts others that one loves first. To sacrifice is to surrender something of value as a means of gaining something more desirable or of preventing some evil. What is wrong or bad in this. If you one cannot surrender ones pride, arrogance, and selfishness -- dare I say, EGO -- for their partner, then how can such a relationship last?
In a relationship you cannot so easily choose the sacrifices you must make for the relationship to survive. Isn't that a kind of conditional love. I contend that sacrifice is not the dirty word you make it out to be and I will go further to say that you seem to be blind to its true significance and meaning in the context of a marriage. Loving is giving, and that giving sometimes does not feel good to the senses but fills ones spirit. |
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