Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Rteacher]

Corruption always sets in, but the main injustice that Buddha was targeting was misuse of Vedic injunctions about animal sacrifices - people became more interested in killing the "sacrificial" animals just to eat their meat...Real devotion to Buddha is a good thing, but ...

[Satori]

Depends if you're into this mainly out of intellectual interest or to really get some of the benefits of it into your life.

I would recommend not reading any books at all. And simply setting up a morning meditation routine, on a comfy cushion, with some incense, a timer, and a little bell for you to start and finish. Do about 45 minutes. The earlier in the day you can, the better. Just focus on breathing. The idea is to have no thoughts, of course this is impossible, and you should not fight the thoughts and try to drive them away, just ackowledge them, and let them pass. After some time you will be able to have less and less thoughts, and let them pass quicker. I've been doing it for quite a while and never got thu a whole session without a thought, but I have far less now. I know people who can do this with no thoughts, and these people go on retreats and do this, with breaks, for 8 hours a day. They say the state of mind you achieve is quite sublime...

[flotsam]

Actually, just a technicality, but because of this:

[Soul Forest]

[kangnam mafioso]

[flotsam]

[Rteacher]

I'm no expert on Buddhism (and I sure as hell ain't no "fruitcake"...) but I've definitely heard that there are devotional sects of Buddhism. A quick google immediately brought up Mahayana -

The way of the Mahayana, in contrast to the more conservative and austere Theravada school of Buddhism, can be characterized by:

Universalism, Everyone will become a Buddha.
Enlightened wisdom, as the main focus of realization.
Compassion through the transferal of merit.
Salvation- as opposed to Liberation- supported by a rich cosmography, including celestial realms and powers, with a spectrum of Bodhisattvas, both human and seemingly godlike, who can assist followers.
�Philosophical Mahayana� tends to focus on the first three characteristics (Universality, enlightened wisdom, compassion) without showing much interest for supernatural constructions, while �Devotional Mahayana� mainly focuses on salvation towards other-worldly realms
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahayana

If that's not sufficient, it is obvious that offerings of vegetarian food to Buddha in temples by followers is a devotional offering...
Relief image of the bodhisattva Kuan Yin from Mt. Jiuhua in China's Anhui province. The image's many arms represent the bodhisattva's limitless capacity and commitment to helping other beings.

[kangnam mafioso]

keeps it real, my childrens

[flotsam]

Oh fruitcake, it's much more complex than that: it's not like that Krishna Korps silliness with all it's lion dolls and cute little imagery. Let me explain:

1. Although it is a commonly held belief that Theravada is the more austere of the two major schools and Mahayana is the more devotional, that is quite hogwashic. If you go to any of the countries where Theravada is practiced you will see that devotional practice is common to all these countries, taking different forms that often mingle with local animistic traditions like it has with Korean Shamanism, Japanese Shinto or Burmese nat worship. This is due to the syncretic and open nature of Buddhism and Shakyamuni's advice that the 4 and the 8 be taught to and practiced by different people as they find it most suitable for them. Even to the point of practicing the 4/8 while adhering to another religious system. Ultimately, if you practice the 4/8, you are a "Buddhist" by default, and that means nothing as a label or an attachment for either Buddhists that officially proclaim their practice, or for non-Buddhists who never even heard of it.

2. Of course there are the Pure-Land schools of the "please Buddha get my little Su-Min into SNU" variety that are almost evangelical in nature and whose practice involves devotional veneration for the Buddha and certain Bodhisattvas, but:

A) The same thing occurs in non-Mahayana religious and lay communities all over. See #1.
B) The Buddha never suggested this as the "right" or the most appropriate path. See earlier post on Avaykata.

3. To say the Theravada school is "more austere" is, frankly, to expose that you are not talking from personal experience or have any real knowledge of Buddhism. Ch'an/Seon/Zen practice, especially the Rinzai schools, can be considered much, much more austere than any Theravadan practice.

4. And although it all goes back to doing what is best for you as an individual, in the end, no one can argue Shakyamuni was vague on the matter of veneration of others:

[Rteacher]

You're so puffed-up with false-pride over your bombastic conception of voidism that your head probably resembles a blow-fish...

And, you had to merrily dance around your flatly incorrect assertion that that "devotion to Buddha has nothing to do with Buddhism"...

Buddha had two essential missions: to stop abuse of the Vedic scriptures related to animal sacrifices, and to "trick" atheists into offering topmost respect to an empowered incarnation (shaktyavesa avatar) of God. The following quote conveys the Vedic view of Buddha (which I find to ring more true than any versions propagated by meat-eaters and drunkards...)

The Vedic View of the Buddha

Within the vast structure of spiritual teachings which constitute the Vedic religion of India ... there is a view of the Buddha which sees him as an incarnation of Divinity.

The monumental scripture called the Srimad-Bhagavatam [ aka Bhagavat Purana, compiled about 5000 years ago...] contains the following reference to the Lord Buddha:

�Then, in the beginning of Kali-yuga [the age of quarrel and hypocrisy], the Lord [Krishna] will appear as Lord Buddha, the son of Anjana, in the province of Gaya, just for the purpose of deluding those who are envious of the faithful theist.� ([i]Srimad-Bhagavatam 1.3.24, [/i]

[As predicted...] Prince Siddhartha did indeed �become� the historical Buddha under the Bodhi Tree at Gaya, and the Vaishnava understanding of the Buddha�s mission is that it was to attract people of atheistic propensities and cause them to revere him. The atheists thus (unwittingly) were paying homage to a great Divine Being, whom Srila A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada (founder of the modern Krishna Consciousness Movement) describes as �a powerful incarnation of the Personality of Godhead.� ...

Commenting on the above passage from the Srimad-Bhagavatam, Srila Prabhupada writes:
�He [Buddha] deluded the atheists because such atheists who
followed his principles did not believe in God, but they kept
their absolute faith in Lord Buddha, who himself was the
incarnation of God. Thus the faithless people were made to
believe in God in the form of Lord Buddha. That was the
mercy of Lord Buddha: he made the faithless faithful to
him.�

�The animal sacrifice as stated in the Vedas is different from
the unrestricted animal-killing in the slaughterhouse.
Because the asuras [aggressive, demonic beings] or the
so-called scholars of Vedic literatures put forward the
evidence of animal-killing in the Vedas, Lord Buddha
superficially denied the authority of the Vedas. This
rejection of the Vedas by Lord Buddha was adopted in order
to save people from the vice of animal-killing as well as
to save the poor animals from the slaughtering process of
their big brothers who clamor for universal brotherhood,
peace, justice and equity. There is no justice when there is
animal-killing. Lord Buddha wanted to stop it completely,
and therefore his cult of ahimsa was propagated not only in
India but also outside the country.

Technically Lord Buddha�s philosophy is called atheistic
because there is no acceptance of the Supreme Lord and
because that system of philosophy denied the authority of
the Vedas. But that is an act of camouflage by the Lord.
Lord Buddha is the incarnation of Godhead. As such, he
is the original propounder of Vedic knowledge. He
therefore cannot reject Vedic philosophy. But he rejected it
outwardly because the sura-dvisa, or the demons who are
always envious of the devotees of Godhead, try to support
cow-killing or animal-killing from the pages of the Vedas...
http://www.nirvanasutra.org.uk/buddhaandgod8.htm

[flotsam]

Shall I post a Christian interpretation of the Krishna Korps as a relevant response to what you have posted?

Or will it be as germane as yours?

You didn't debate at all, you just flogged your own dogma about like your willie, mate.

Dance, dance, dance indeed. Try again--harder this time--and without the mythology and unsubstantiated accusations.

Run along now. Reflect.

[coolsage]

And this is where it starts to go astray. Dialectic in the service of the mystic is a contradiction. Other than Zen, which involves a discipline of simplicity that is not practical for those of us living and working in the world as we know it, my personal favorite is Krishnamurti. He's the guy who nails it, to put it colloquially. If you're seeking for some of those 'higher truths' (and in Korea you're probably going to have to do it without the mushrooms), then he's a good one to read.

[Rteacher]

Well, you've at least refrained from inflammatory name-calling for one post (I'm generally tolerant of personal insults to myself, but I really don't like "fruitcake" so I draw the line there...)

Anyway, I think that there is a basic unity among all major religions and philosophies which stems from the (arguable) fact that they are all derived from the original Vedic religion of ancient India. Because of material motivation, stress has been placed on perceived differences and faults rather than on similarities and common principles.

Many people recognize that the "Golden Rule" is universal. "In Buddhism, the Udanavarya (5.1 simply states, 'Hurt not others with that which pains yourself.�'
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/toward_world_peace_ebook.htm
The Vedic view is that this should be extended as far as practically possible to all living beings. To again quote from that same essay on "world peace": "Many portions of the Vedic literature describe how the Supreme Being is the maintainer of innumerable living entities, humans as well as the animals, and is alive in the heart of every living being. Only those with spiritual consciousness can see ..."
The Buddhist scripture (Sutta-Nipata 393) also advises: �Let him not destroy or cause to be destroyed any life at all, or sanction the acts of those who do so. Let him refrain from even hurting any creature, both those that are strong and those that tremble in the world.� It is also said in the Buddhist scripture, the Mahaparinirvana Sutra, �The eating of meat extinguishes the seed of great compassion.�
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/toward_world_peace_ebook.htm
Moreover, in the words of the streetwise Rodney King: "Can't we just all get along?"

[kangnam mafioso]

only on dave's korea board ... even the buddhist discussion threads get rude and mean-spirited. lol!

[uber1024]