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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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 Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:11 am Post subject: |
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| tate wrote: |
| ttompatz wrote: |
TOLL BAIT is TROLL BAIT...
May you suffer a 1000 days in a crappy, kiddy, kindy, hakwon!! |
Are you serious? |
Let me rephrase that last ....
TOLL BAIT is TROLL BAIT...
May you suffer a 1000 days in a crappy, kiddy, kindy, hakwon!!
Yup... I think I was serious... and the original question I posed is still unanswered...
Are you even in Korea? Have you ever been in Korea?
TOLL BAIT is TROLL BAIT...
May you suffer a 1000 days in a crappy, kiddy, kindy, hakwon!!
TOLL BAIT is TROLL BAIT...
May you suffer a 1000 days in a crappy, kiddy, kindy, hakwon!! |
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tate
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:15 am Post subject: |
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Why do people feel threatened by hypothetical questions?
What is this inability to conduct a conversation in which there is a difference of opinion without resorting to childish ad hominem attacks?
Personally I have no emotional commitment to either side of the argument. If it is legal for a hogwan to force your attendence on field trips then that is simply the case. I'll stoicly accept this as the fact of the matter.
But I am not swayed by this attack on my person. No one here could possibly attack me becuase they do not know who I am. I am not the issue here. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: |
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| Njord wrote: |
I have no opinion on the OP's question since IANAL and I really have no idea about Korean law. However...
2. If you think teaching always requires textbooks and a whiteboard then we have very different ideas of "teaching".
3. If you don't think going someplace during contracted work hours and being paid to watch children is working, then we have very different ideas of "working" as well. |
2. I never said that. What I said was is the OP required to actually teach on this field trip? If you don't have the materials that one USUALLY teaches with, I feel that an argument could be made that the OP is not teaching but entertaining.
3. If he is doing it during contracted work hours then he is obviously working. But it is not ILLEGAL work which was the point I was trying to make.
When I said it is not seen as teaching, I meant that I doubt either the employer or Immigration would see it that way.
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Thu May 18, 2006 3:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 3:45 am Post subject: |
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Tate,
You have no emotional commitment to either side of the question...thats true.
You are however posting something that smells, looks and sounds very much like someone trying to find a lame excuse not to go on a field trip and trying to find some sort of justification for that choice.
Any reasonable teacher will tell you that a field trip can be included in teaching related activities and/or school activities.
Here is a simple formula for you:
You work for school X as a teacher.
There is a field trip with ther students you teach at school X.
That is considered a school X activity and it part of teaching duties (unless specified clearly in your contract that it is not).
Conclusion: Your school is not asking you to work for some one else. You are working for School X on a field trip with students from school X. It could not be any clearer.
You may try to dance around the issue if you will by bringing up silly analysis of possible interpretations of "working somewhere else" but really somewhere else means for another employer.
You may also dance on the field trip is not teaching issue but it remains teaching related. You can always retreat behind the "a field trip is not teaching because there are no whiteboards and it is not in a classroom" concept if that is what makes sense to you.
Anyway, one question was posed in this thread which you have not answered and it is a key question: are you working in Korea now? |
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tate
Joined: 05 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:07 am Post subject: |
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| Yes I'm teaching in a Hogwan in Korea. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 4:11 am Post subject: |
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| Yes I'm teaching in a Hogwan in Korea. |
Ok, then I suggest you read your contract. It should pretty much end this back and forth nonsense.
If you don't want to go on the field trip, take it up with your boss but the "law" won't cover you here. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: |
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I don't think immigration really care about field trips. Nor are they concerned about a hagwon teacher teaching one-shot deals under the direction of the hagwon at other companies (that would depend maybe on where you're located). Depends on the hagwon and it's reputation or usefulness to the community. I don't think immi officals are in the game to needlessly ruffle everyone's feathers.
As far as field trips go, if they're during working hours, just go. If they're on the weekend or any other non-scheduled time, get OT for it. You could simply tell them that you don't want to go on a field trip this weekend. What's the use of you going anyway. Just standing or sitting around.
Time is money.
The End |
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Njord
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:22 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
You work for school X as a teacher.
There is a field trip with ther students you teach at school X.
That is considered a school X activity and it part of teaching duties (unless specified clearly in your contract that it is not).
Conclusion: Your school is not asking you to work for some one else. You are working for School X on a field trip with students from school X. It could not be any clearer. |
Just so I am sure I understand this... Immigration does not care about the location where you are working. They only care about who you are working for. So as long as I get my paycheck from school X, (and nobody else) and only teach students from school X, I should be fine with immigration?
For what it's worth, my contract says "no field trips" (or something to that effect) so I am just interested in exactly where the law draws a line. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:35 am Post subject: |
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Field trips are part of school activities and therefore teachign duties unless noted otherwise in your contract.
As for teaching students from your school outside the mandate of your school that is a private and it is illegal. |
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Njord
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 6:49 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
Field trips are part of school activities and therefore teachign duties unless noted otherwise in your contract.
As for teaching students from your school outside the mandate of your school that is a private and it is illegal. |
How about if I teach at a location other than my school but I get a paycheck from my school? How about having my adult conversation class meet at a coffee shop once a week? (My director's son is in the class, so he could verify that I did teach for the required time, etc.) I'm actually thinking about doing this to give them a more natural and relaxed setting. |
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ttompatz
Joined: 05 Sep 2005
Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:01 am Post subject: |
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| Njord wrote: |
| Homer wrote: |
Field trips are part of school activities and therefore teachign duties unless noted otherwise in your contract.
As for teaching students from your school outside the mandate of your school that is a private and it is illegal. |
How about if I teach at a location other than my school but I get a paycheck from my school? How about having my adult conversation class meet at a coffee shop once a week? (My director's son is in the class, so he could verify that I did teach for the required time, etc.) I'm actually thinking about doing this to give them a more natural and relaxed setting. |
That sounds like a field trip... enjoy your coffee... |
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Njord
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
Location: South Korea
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| ttompatz wrote: |
| That sounds like a field trip... enjoy your coffee... |
Thanks! Just what I wanted to hear. |
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Homer
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds like a field trip indeed. |
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jacl
Joined: 31 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Njord wrote: |
| Homer wrote: |
Field trips are part of school activities and therefore teachign duties unless noted otherwise in your contract.
As for teaching students from your school outside the mandate of your school that is a private and it is illegal. |
How about if I teach at a location other than my school but I get a paycheck from my school? How about having my adult conversation class meet at a coffee shop once a week? (My director's son is in the class, so he could verify that I did teach for the required time, etc.) I'm actually thinking about doing this to give them a more natural and relaxed setting. |
Immigration doesn't care about that. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Thu May 18, 2006 8:32 am Post subject: |
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So, you have a hogwan class, the students pay the hogwan and the hogwan pays the teacher:
What if your hogwan class takes a field trip every day?
What if the field trip is to the same location every day?
What if the field trip is to the home or office of one of the class members?
What if the class has only one class member?
Where is the magic line between legal and illegal? Is there one? |
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