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Asians and Evolution
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Zulu



Joined: 28 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 6:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

They don't all have a total lack of body hair from what I've seen. A lot of these girls have the hairiest legs I've ever seen on women, but usually shave it or whatever before going out in public. But sometimes they obviously forget or just don't care.
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AbbeFaria



Joined: 17 May 2005
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 1:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is interesting, thanks,

�S�
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Stephen Jones



Joined: 07 Jun 2006

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
And also, what might have spawned the almost complete lack of body hair?
Try googling for sexual selection and neotony.
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Troll_Bait



Joined: 04 Jan 2006
Location: [T]eaching experience doesn't matter much. -Lee Young-chan (pictured)

PostPosted: Fri Jun 23, 2006 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

flotsam wrote:
Hey TB, are you Mahaya or Hinaya?

I've always followed the revered elders of Booh-yah, myself.


My understanding is that followers of Boo-ya ("Rusty-wheel Vehicle") find the term somewhat demeaning, and prefer the term Hey-ya ("Wheel-challenged Vehicle").
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Privateer



Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2006 2:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When a successful animal population spreads over a very large area (planetwide in the case of humans) the resulting separated populations are going to begin to diverge in part simply because they are separate.

If a species stays in one area it forms one population group for breeding purposes and, if it evolves, - due to sexual selection, environmental factors, and random mutation - it's going to evolve in step. On the other hand, if you have separated populations the odds against them evolving in the same way are, I should think, quite high, and that's true even if they're living in very similar environments. Say you have a species of goat separated into 2 populations by a river: after a few generations you'd expect them to differ even if both sides of the river are the same.

Of course there are species that stay in one isolated area for millenia and don't evolve but this isn't only because their environment doesn't change but also because the odds of evolutionary change are reduced when you only have a small gene pool.

I haven't actually researched any of this tho'. Might be all hot air. Wink
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 1:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, it's the "off-topic" forum, so ...

500 Doctoral Scientists Skeptical of Darwin

Jun 24, USA (WORLD NET DAILY) � Growing list of signatories challenges claims about support for theory.

More than 500 scientists with doctoral degrees have signed a statement expressing skepticism about Darwin's theory of evolution. The statement, which includes endorsement by members of the prestigious U.S. National Academy of Sciences and Russian Academy of Sciences, was first published by the Seattle-based Discovery Institute in 2001 to challenge statements about Darwinian evolution made in promoting PBS's "Evolution" series. The PBS promotion claimed "virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true." ...

The statement, signed by 514 scientists, reads:

"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."
http://www.harekrsna.com/sun/features/06-06/features335.htm
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Novernae



Joined: 02 Mar 2005

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
The PBS promotion claimed "virtually every scientist in the world believes the theory to be true." ...
The statement, signed by 514 scientists...


OK... Let's test your math skills. 514 out of how many millions? To me that deserves at least the qualification of the 'virtually all.' There are more scientists named Steve who defend evolution than scientists who would refute it. http://www.ncseweb.org/article.asp?category=18

Rteacher wrote:
The statement, signed by 514 scientists, reads:
"We are skeptical of claims for the ability of random mutation and natural selection to account for the complexity of life. Careful examination of the evidence for Darwinian theory should be encouraged."


Careful examination of any and all evidence is what true science is about. Refuting evidence based on the fact that you don't believe randomness can account for complexities is enough evidence for me that these 'scientists' actually have no concept of science.


Last edited by Novernae on Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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flotsam



Joined: 28 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

American Gastroenterological Association

Quote:
Membership

Membership in the AGA demonstrates to peers and patients an exceptional level of commitment to excellence in gastroenterological research, education and clinical practice. Our more than 14,000 U.S. and foreign-based members enjoy many special benefits and services designed especially for them, including: diverse educational offerings, clinical resources, research funding, professional development, advocacy and much more!
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 2:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Apr. 25, 2006: The National Academy of Sciences today announced the election of 72 new members and 18 foreign associates in recognition of their distinguished and continuing achievements in original research. Those elected today bring the total number of active members to 2,013.
http://www.nasonline.org/site/PageServer?pagename=NEWS_Main

The fact that some signers are members of the prestigious NAS gives it more credibility than evolution theory backers on this thread have been willing - or able - to acknowledge ...
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flotsam



Joined: 28 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2006 5:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:
Apr. 25, 2006: The National Academy of Sciences today announced the election of 72 new members and 18 foreign associates in recognition of their distinguished and continuing achievements in original research. Those elected today bring the total number of active members to 2,013.
http://www.nasonline.org/site/PageServer?pagename=NEWS_Main

The fact that some signers are members of the prestigious NAS gives it more credibility than evolution theory backers on this thread have been willing - or able - to acknowledge ...


Find out how many, their credentials and exactly how they question the theory(questioning it doesn't mean refuting it--could just be about semantics or technicalities) and then we can talk.

Until then, a post from www.harekrsna.com doesn't lend your "argument" a lot of weight.

Quote:
News

Statement by Academy President Bruce Alberts on Kansas State Science Curriculum

August 20, 1999

We view the recent actions of the Kansas State Board of Education as an unfortunate setback for all those attempting to prepare our young people for a century in which science and technology will play an ever-increasing role. Evolution is not only universally accepted by scientists; it has also been accepted by the leaders of most of the world's major religions.

The National Academy of Sciences has long been an advocate for the teaching of evolution as a central element in any science education program. Within the last year and a half we have published two major publications on this issue. The first of these, entitled Teaching About Evolution and the Nature of Science, is a book that is aimed at helping teachers distinguish between science and religion as different ways of knowing about the world.

In addition, the Academy recently issued the second edition of Science and Creationism: A View from the National Academy of Sciences, a publication designed for parents, school boards and the general public.

Our work on evolution, and additional information about the important role the teaching of evolution plays in quality science education, can be found on our website at <http://national-academies.org/evolution>.


http://national-academies.org/evolution/

Quote:
Don't many famous scientists reject evolution?

No. The scientific consensus around evolution is overwhelming. Those opposed to the teaching of evolution sometimes use quotations from prominent scientists out of context to claim that scientists do not support evolution. However, examination of the quotations reveals that the scientists are actually disputing some aspect of how evolution occurs, not whether evolution occurred. For example, the biologist Stephen Jay Gould once wrote that "the extreme rarity of transitional forms in the fossil record persists as the trade secret of paleontology." But Gould, an accomplished paleontologist and eloquent educator about evolution, was arguing about how evolution takes place. He was discussing whether the rate of change of species is slow and gradual or whether it takes place in bursts after long periods when little change occurs�an idea known as punctuated equilibrium. As Gould writes in response, "This quotation, although accurate as a partial citation, is dishonest in leaving out the following explanatory material showing my true purpose�to discuss rates of evolutionary change, not to deny the fact of evolution itself." Gould defines punctuated equilibrium as follows:

Punctuated equilibrium is neither a creationist idea nor even a non-Darwinian evolutionary theory about sudden change that produces a new species all at once in a single generation. Punctuated equilibrium accepts the conventional idea that new species form over hundreds or thousands of generations and through an extensive series of intermediate stages. But geological time is so long that even a few thousand years may appear as a mere "moment" relative to the several million years of existence for most species. Thus, rates of evolution vary enormously and new species may appear to arise "suddenly" in geological time, even though the time involved would seem long, and the change very slow, when compared to a human lifetime.


Quote:


Reviewers


This report has been reviewed by individuals chosen for their diverse perspectives and technical expertise, in accordance with procedures approved by the National Research Council's Report Review Committee. The purpose of the independent review is to provide candid and critical comments that will assist the authors and the National Academy of Sciences in making their published report as sound as possible and to ensure that the report meets institutional standards for objectivity, evidence, and responsiveness to the study charge. The contents of the review comments and draft manuscript remain confidential to protect the integrity of the deliberative process. We wish to thank the following individuals for their participation in the review of this report:

John Baldeschwieler

J. Stanley Johnson Professor and Professor of Chemistry

Division of Chemistry and Chemical Engineering

California Institute of Technology

Pasadena, California

John E. Dowling

Maria Moors Cabot Professor of Natural Science

The Biological Laboratories

Harvard University

Cambridge, Massachusetts

Marye Anne Fox

Chancellor

North Carolina State University

Raleigh, North Carolina

Wilford Gardner

Dean Emeritus

College of Natural Resources

University of California at Berkeley

Berkeley, California

Timothy Goldsmith

Professor of Biology

Department of Molecular, Cellular, and Developmental Biology

Yale University

New Haven, Connecticut

Avram Goldstein

Professor of Pharmacology, Emeritus

Stanford University

Stanford, California

Ursula Goodenough

Professor Department of Biology

Washington University

Saint Louis, Missouri

Robert Griffiths

Professor of Physics Carnegie

Mellon University

Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania

Norman Horowitz

Professor Emeritus

Division of Biology

California Institute of Technology

Pasadena, California

Susan Kidwell


Professor

Department of Geophysical Sciences

University of Chicago

Chicago, Illinois

David Pilbeam


Henry Ford II Professor of Social Sciences

Peabody Museum

Harvard University

Cambridge, Massachusetts

Luis Sequeira

J.C. Walker Professor Emeritus

Department of Plant Pathology

University of Wisconsin

Madison, Wisconsin

Phillip Tobias

Professor Emeritus

Department of Anatomical Sciences

University of Witwatersrand

Medical School

Johannesburg, Republic of South Africa

And other anonymous reviews.

While the individuals listed above have provided many constructive comments and suggestions, responsibility for the final content of this report rests solely with the authoring committee and the National Academy of Sciences.
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Rteacher



Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chemist and five time Nobel nominee, Henry "Fritz" Schaefer of the University of Georgia, commented on the need to encourage debate on Darwin's theory of evolution. "Some defenders of Darwinism," says Schaefer, "embrace standards of evidence for evolution that as scientists they would never accept in other circumstances." Schaefer was on the roster of signers of the statement, termed "A Scientific Dissent on Darwinism."

"The numbers of scientists who question Darwinism is a minority, but it is growing fast," said Stephen Meyer, a Cambridge-educated philosopher of science who directs the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture at Discovery Institute. "This is happening in the face of fierce attempts to intimidate and suppress legitimate dissent. Young scientists are threatened with deprivation of tenure. Others have seen a consistent pattern of answering scientific arguments with ad hominem attacks. In particular, the series' attempt to stigmatize all critics--including scientists--as religious 'creationists' is an excellent example of viewpoint discrimination."

Signers of the statement questioning Darwinism came from throughout the US and from several other countries, representing biology, physics, chemistry, mathematics, geology, anthropology and other scientific fields. Professors and researchers at such universities as Princeton, MIT, U Penn, and Yale, as well as smaller colleges and the National Laboratories at Livermore, CA and Los Alamos, N.M., are included. A number of the signers have authored or contributed to books on issues related to evolution, or have books underway.

Despite repeated requests, the [PBS "Evolution"] series' producers refused to cover scientific objections to Darwinism. Instead, the producers offered only to let scientific dissenters go on camera to tell their "personal faith stories" in the last program of the series, "What About God?" According to Discovery's Chapman, "This was almost an insult to serious scientists. Some of these dissenting scientists are not even religious. When you watch that last program, you realize they were wise to refuse to take part in it."

Jed Macosko, a young research molecular biologist at the University of California, Berkeley, and a statement signer, said, "It is time for defenders of Darwin to engage in serious dialogue and debate with their scientific critics. Science can't grow where institutional gatekeepers try to prevent new challengers from being heard."
http://www.reviewevolution.com/press/pressRelease_100Scientists.php
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flotsam



Joined: 28 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 5:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rteacher wrote:


"The numbers of scientists who question Darwinism is a minority, but it is growing fast," said Stephen Meyer, a Cambridge-educated philosopher of science who directs the Center for the Renewal of Science and Culture at Discovery Institute. "This is happening in the face of fierce attempts to intimidate and suppress legitimate dissent. Young scientists are threatened with deprivation of tenure. Others have seen a consistent pattern of answering scientific arguments with ad hominem attacks. In particular, the series' attempt to stigmatize all critics--including scientists--as religious 'creationists' is an excellent example of viewpoint discrimination."


Jesus Tapdancing Christ, Rteacher.

You don't check your references at all, do you...

Quote:
Criticisms of the institute

At the foundation of most criticism of the Discovery Institute is the charge that the institute and its Center for Science and Culture intentionally misrepresent or omit many important facts in promoting their agenda. Intellectual dishonesty, in the form of misleading impressions created by the use of rhetoric, intentional ambiguity, and misrepresented evidence, form the foundation of most of the criticisms of the institute. It is alleged that its goal is to lead an unwary public to reach certain conclusions, and that many have been deceived as a result. Its critics, such as Eugenie Scott, Robert Pennock and Barbara Forrest, claim that the Discovery Institute knowingly misquotes scientists and other experts, deceptively omits contextual text through ellipsis, and makes unsupported amplifications of relationships and credentials. A wide spectrum of critics level this charge; from educators, scientists and the Smithsonian Institute to individuals who oppose the teaching of creationism along science on ideological grounds. Specific objections with examples are listed at the Center for Science and Culture article.

This criticism is not limited to those in the scientific community that oppose the teaching of intelligent design and the suppression of evolution, but also includes former Discovery Institute donors. The Bullitt Foundation, which gave $10,000 in 2001 for transportation causes, withdrew all funding of the institute; its director, Denis Hayes, called the institute "the institutional love child of Ayn Rand and Jerry Falwell," and said, "I can think of no circumstances in which the Bullitt Foundation would fund anything at Discovery today."

The Templeton Foundation, who provided grants for conferences and courses to debate intelligent design, later asked intelligent design proponents to submit proposals for actual research, "They never came in," said Charles L. Harper Jr., senior vice president at the Templeton Foundation, who said that while he was skeptical from the beginning, other foundation officials were initially intrigued and later grew disillusioned. "From the point of view of rigor and intellectual seriousness, the intelligent design people don't come out very well in our world of scientific review," he said. [7]

The Templeton Foundation has since rejected the Discovery Institute's entreaties for more funding, Harper states. "They're political - that for us is problematic," and that while Discovery has "always claimed to be focused on the science," "what I see is much more focused on public policy, on public persuasion, on educational advocacy and so forth." [8]

Philip Gold, a former fellow who left in 2002, has criticized the institute for growing increasingly religious. "It evolved from a policy institute that had a religious focus to an organization whose primary mission is Christian conservatism," he has said.

The Wedge document, a widely circulated 1998 internal memo laid out Discovery's original, ambitious plan to "drive a wedge" into the heart of "scientific materialism," "thereby divorcing science from its purely observational and naturalistic methodology and reversing the deleterious effects of evolution on Western culture." Meyer says that the Wedge document "was stolen from our offices and placed on the Web without permission."[2] The central item of this agenda - establishing intelligent design as legitmate science through conducting actual scientific research - has not been achieved.[3]

Michelle Goldberg has once said "... the Center for Science and Culture takes creationism and tries to legitimize it in scientific terms, and make it sound as if it�s really just a kind of competing scientific theory. It hires people with a lot of impressive degrees, although, in many cases, they got the degrees specifically with the idea of using them to discredit Darwinism for religious reasons. It�ll put someone forward like Jonathan Wells, who has a Ph.D. from Berkeley, and yet here he is, defending intelligent design. So they�ve given a lot of thought to packaging intelligent design to make it seem like legitimate science. And they�ve given a lot of thought to how to try to infiltrate their ideas into the culture." [9]


Funding

The institute is a non-profit educational foundation funded by philanthropic foundation grants, corporate and individual contributions and the dues of Institute members. Contributions made to it are tax deductible, as provided by law.

The institute does not provide details about its backers, out of "harassment" fears according to Chapman. A review of tax documents on www.guidestar.org [10], a Web site that collects data on foundations, showed grants and gifts totalling $4.1 million in 2003, the most recent year available. This is in contrast to $1.4 million in 1997, the oldest year available. The records show financial support from 22 foundations, at least two-thirds of which state explicitly religious missions. The Discovery Institute's CSC director, Stephen C. Meyer, admits much of the institutes's money comes from such wealthy Christian fundamentalist conservatives as Howard Ahmanson Jr., who once said his goal is "the total integration of biblical law into our lives," Philip F. Anschutz, Richard Mellon Scaife, and the MacLellan Foundation, which commits itself to "the infallibility of the Scripture." [11] Most Discovery Institute donors have also contributed significantly to the Bush campaign.

Though in the minority, funding also comes from non-conservative sources: The Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation gave $1 million in 2000 and pledged $9.35 million over 10 years in 2003, including $50,000 of Bruce Chapman's $141,000 annual salary. The money of the Gates Foundation grant is "exclusive to the Cascadia project" on regional transportation, according to a Gates Foundation grant maker.

Published reports state that the institute has awarded $3.6 million in fellowships of $5,000 to $60,000 per year to 50 researchers since the CSC's founding in 1996 [12].


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Discovery_Institute

Hang your head in shame and await futher chastising tomorrow.
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Bronski



Joined: 17 Apr 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From an interesting article about skin color:

Quote:
In their analysis of human evolutionary history, Jablonski and Chaplin concluded that modern humans most likely evolved in the tropics, where they were exposed to high UV levels. But as they moved into regions away from the equator, where UV levels are lower, humans became fairer so as to allow enough UV radiation to penetrate their skin and produce vitamin D, the "sunshine vitamin," also obtained from eating fish and marine mammals. Vitamin D is essential for maintaining healthy blood levels of calcium and phosphorous, and thus promoting bone growth.

Skin color, according to Jablonski and Chaplin, basically becomes a balancing act between the evolutionary demands of photo-protection and the need to create vitamin D in the skin.

But things aren't always what they ought to be. That is the case with Eskimos and other inhabitants of northern Alaska and northern Canada. "Looking at Alaska, one would think that the native people should be pale as ghosts," Jablonski says. One of the reasons they're not is that these populations have not lived in the region very long in terms of geological time. But more importantly, their traditional diet is rich in fish and other seafood. They've consumed huge doses of vitamin D, so they haven't had to undergo the same reduction in pigmentation that would otherwise be required at such high latitudes. "What's really interesting is that if these people don't eat their aboriginal diets of fish and marine mammals, they suffer tremendously high rates of vitamin D-deficiency diseases such as rickets in children and osteoporosis in adults," Jablonski says.

A similar problem occurs when dark-skinned people move to northern latitudes. "For years people couldn't understand why dark Indians and Pakistanis living in northern England suffered from vitamin D-deficiency diseases," Jablonski says. "Now it has become clear that the natural sunscreen in their skins wouldn't allow them to synthesize enough vitamin D from the sunlight." Cultural factors exacerbated the problem, such as the wearing of veils by some Muslim women. "It's a real detective story," she adds.


http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0211/feature2/online_extra.html
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flotsam



Joined: 28 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bronski wrote:
From an interesting article about skin color:

Quote:
Cultural factors exacerbated the problem, such as the wearing of veils by some Muslim women. "It's a real detective story," she adds.


http://magma.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0211/feature2/online_extra.html


Oh, that's absolute cheap-shot balls, no? What exacerbated the same problem among the men? Rolling Eyes Such a random bit of inflammatory crap shot in amongst data.
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Juregen



Joined: 30 May 2006

PostPosted: Mon Jun 26, 2006 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You guys are forgetting that Koreans don't have any sweat glands under their armpits.

That is why my hunt for deoderant is only succesfull when summer starts.
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