Korean Job Discussion Forums

[jacl]

[khyber]

My experience with terrible students was not middle school but grade six.
They acted in a very similar manner to your skalliwags.

Some things I noticed:
1) The less I started to care, the worse they behaved. Going to the principal/supervisor did fk all, so I would never suggest doing that (unless you know your princ./sup. to be on the ball).

2) Regardless of who is saying what OUTSIDE of the class, the most important thing is what YOU, are doing IN THE CLASS. Principal lecturing, coteacher yelling; other teacher hitting won't change a stitch unless you find out what works.

3) My best lessons employed the "kill them with kindness" routine. If they looked bored, well, then do about 3 or 4 activities a class. Try to find activities they like and use them (BUT don't over use them!!! more later). The worse shape they look to be in, the more time you should take to prepare for your class.

4) Surveys can work really well but one problem is that they tend to rely on communication to really make them work (that and INCREDIBLY dedication by the teacher) and that can be difficult in esl classes. Also, it sounds like your class is not really communicative so trying to get them to communicate what they want (in a meaningful way) for their surveys will no doubt, backfire. They would be a good idea though once your class is back on the same page with you.

5) A lot of people want to get students to talk to you but that may not be something you'd be able to do off the bat. If you've said they aren't really talkative with you nowadays, you can't expect them to start talking.

6) The overuse of games (in my experience) has been a detriment to student behaviour.

I would suggest:
*Taking the time to prepare and GOOD lesson for that class for at least a couple weeks...perhaps more. Try to have it student centred learning but make SURE that they interact with you enough so that you can keep their energy up.
*Downplay the games (or play simpler games) for a few classes but make up for it by planning entertaining lessons (you'll have to think aout what sorta things they like to do or what htey like to talk about).
*Get them to personalize as MUCH of their speech as possible: the more students spend time talking about things that are important to them, the more interested they'll be in speaking. In due course, they may even have a problem shutting up.
* Once they get to that point, employ a survey or a discussion to set up some new guidelines for the students. But don't just sit back and let "them make decisions" about discipline.
It's a two way street BUT Remember: The standards for that class are yours!
That said, I'm sorry to say it but I'd guess that part of the reason that you've come to this situation is the teacher's fault. Ask them what they want you to do (as mentioned) but NOT what they want to do in class (you'll know that's "games" and "eat snack"). Ensure that their expectations of you are reasonable.
One last note to emphasize Woland's suggestion is: Make a "Master Copy" of the Rules and make them large. Make a copy for yourself AND for the classroom. Make sure the classroom one is BIG! That is, a student could read that regardless of where they sit.
* and one last thing: Every class, review the rules (it make be good to make some sorta corny rap to make it a bit more interesting). After a few classes, just review sporatically at the beginning of class to help them remember what's expected.



Having been in that situation, I know EXACTLY how you feel buddy. Good luck! I hope things work out to be, at least, not so bad!

[sheba]

Firstly, Khyber..... LAST year, 6th graders were my big problem..... but theyve graduated to middle school now!!

Well first class since I first posted this subject....

My students responded to me when I said hello as I walked into the class today - I guess raising my voice at them last week did something.

Anyway, we spent the first 15 minutes just talking with them about the class. I told them exactly what I thought about their behaviour and attitude. I made some rules, followed by punishments. I asked them what they would like changed about the class. I offered to give them 15 mins to teach the class themselves (as some people suggested) though they werent interested. I didnt yell or get angry, but told them I just wanted to make the class better because I know they hate it, and cos I hate the way the treat me. That in itself seemed to help. They asked what a 'bad attitude' was..... so I mimicked their behaviour and we all had a bit of a laugh cos they knew it was true.

Their behaviour and attitude was a huge improvement today. More talking, answering questions, studying without complaint, acknowledging me outside the class..... and yes, I let them play a short game at the end for their change in attitude. They did however miss out on reward day, and I have told them if they keep up this behaviour for 5 classes straight then they can have it then.

So far so good.... will see how the next few weeks go and keep yas posted.

Thanks for the help! I will still implement the ideas over time.

[teachingld2004]

Yes, surveys are great. You do talk about them. You just do not hand them out. You talk about what a survey is, when they are used, and why they are used. You hand them out, but you also can do it yourself ad use that as an example.

When they are finished you can go over them, have the kids read them, Have them talk about them, have them vote on solutions.

Also remember some kids will be a problem for even the best teacher. I once had a very rude student. He ruined every class he was in. I wanted to throw him out, but he refused to go. After calmly telling him to leave, and him saying "NO". I just said "fine, you stay there", and I took the rest of the class out and let him stay there. It did not change his behavior, it just changed mine. The class was pretty good after that.
Every time he acted up, we left. He finally stopped coming to class.

Some times others can not give advice because we are not in that situation. What works for me,may not work for u. Some kids are just plain rude to everyone. Some do not understand, say they are bored, and just act up. They complain to their moms, the teacher, anyone who will listen they are bored.

I find out the complaners are usually the slowest learners.

[poet13]

Sheba. Sounds like you're on the path to getting control of your classroom back. Good on ya! You must practise being consistent now. For example, say the class has been good for a few days, and you're having wonderful warm feelings about them. But suddenly little Johhny becomes insolent and rude, even for only a few minutes. There and then you need to address and punish. You can't let it slide because they had a few good days. If you let it slide, you will in effect be telling them that that behaviour is ok. Once the punishment is finished, you must move on. Don't hold a grudge. It takes a little practise, but you will find it's pretty easy to go from angry face to happy face the moment punishment is done.
Good luck!

[PRagic]

she's an intelligent kid that has learned how to play a new game. the game is called, 'i don't have to work as hard if i complain about the school and teachers.' this is a power trip, and the little tike is winning. she's passing along her knowledge to the other kids as well.

the only way this can be resolved is through the parents. get them in the classrooms, get them to talk with the teachers.

[sheba]

As fate would have it, our new summer timetable starts on Monday and this particular class has been dissolved!

Hopefully they dont spread their dissatisfaction amongst the other classes.....

[own_king]

I know the class will be disbanded, which is good it sounds like they need a change, but I do want to take a run at some of these, at least for future reference anyway.

Their complaints:

1. I treat them like kids (I didnt think so but there you have it)

Find materials that are more relevent to them. Of course, they don't want to read books designed for grade 3/4 students. I understand the inherent difficulties, with the subject matter the school has you teach, but supplement it with more fun and interesting material. Ths should solve the quiet factor in your class and encourage more free talking as well.

2. I dont have enough of a sense of humour (Its hard to do this when I am either greeted with hounding and demands, or silence and bad attitude)

This may not be your fault. The class can't be fun without the students talking and participating. Middle school kids like more sophisticated humor and humor where you're insulting or making fun of something else (preferrably not a class member). They really like anecdotal humor or stories about your life. If you're reading a crappy story, take time out and discuss it, then throw in an ajuma story or something kinda related, but funny. What foreigner doesn't have a boat load of these. Kids usually find them hilarious.

3. They dont like the book (fair enough, we've been using the same one for 14 months and still not finished)

Yeah, often I hate the books too. Make fun of it sometimes with the kids, they'll sympathize with that, and maybe think you're on their side.

4. I'm a bad teacher (they didnt eloborate on this one)

Do above things and that will change. This is their conclusion of the symptoms above, but they weren't able to aticulate it as well as the others.

5. My class is boring (we play games, I give them puzzles, I try to mix it up...)

Sorry, but it sounds like it. This is going to sound gay, but play hangman. I've never had a class hate it, even though I do. Try pictionary with their vocabulary words. Get creative. Word searches are your reward, not theirs. But give them once in a while too, the class needs some down time. Give word scrambles from the readings, too - first no book, then let them use the book. Have a fast reading contest. Who can read a page the fastest - time them and write that time on the board. The next person tries to beat it. Give a Werthers or Sunkst candy as the prize, just small, but kids like to compete.

6. My class is too easy (I had no idea because I was told not to give tests, no one answers my questions and they copy answers from other students)

Do some group work then. Give cloze tests from their own books. Write some notes from the reading and give them a minute to memorize it, erase it, and have the class re-gurgitate it to you. This will keep them paying attention or keep them on their toes for a couple minutes.

7. There isnt enough free talking (I have tried this, there ends up being 1 or 2 students talking and the rest of the class talk in Korean, play games etc)

This is also not really your fault, at least to some extent. It's up to the class to talk, not just you. One thing I like to try is debating. Every middle school will have something to say about Japan or America. Give topics like school hours should be longer, 5 day work week, etc. A great topic is discusss dog meat. Every class has some who like it and some who don't. Again use ajuma stories. What middle schooler hasn't been pushed or lost their spot inline due to an old person. You'll be surprised to learn, they don't like it either. Whenever a holiday comes cup ask them what they do. If they say eat ramyun and play computer games, ask them what they are SUPPOSED to do on that day and what is the real tradition. Show an interest in them.

Believe me I'm not trying to brag, but I used to love getting these kind of classes, they were generally easy and fun. I turned around quite a few classes like this, by just sitting around and chatting. A lot less work than having to run around like an idiot after grade 1 students. The school thinks you're doing a great job, but I spent more time sitting and relaxing in those classes, than any others. My director, would ask my middle schoolers and they loved my classes. He couldn't understand it, because I didn't sing, I didn't dance, I didn't act like a fool, but they still loved the class. You gotta treat the kids like people and really gotta play to their interests or they won't care. Be enthusiastic or they won't care either. You think you hate The Little Engine That Could or whatever you're reading? They really hate it. I always told other teachers that, your kids maybe can't speak English, but they're not retarded.

[Sody]