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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| It's ok, HT, they all probably loved The English Patient too. |
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Zyzyfer
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: who, what, where, when, why, how?
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 7:54 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
Fair enough ....
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| 1. What do you think the movie was saying? That the girl's marriage became an environment she couldn't relate to? |
Yeah that - and that people lose connection between what they feel and what they do and end up drifting through life, alone, without a sense of purpose.
Both the girl and the Bill Murray's characters are disconnected from people - Bill's wife is distant literally and figuratively (disembodied voice on the long distance line). He doesn't understand his job; what value does it have? It impresses some guys at the bar, he gets paid a fortune to grin and promote some crap whisky, the director, translator, game show host don't talk to him as a person. The girl's starting married to a d*ck who's only superficially concerned about her and just leaves her alone all the time. She doesn't have her own (innane) ambition (as the movie puts it - rock star photographer concerned about scarves, idiot actress, self involved DJ) so she's looking for purpose. So they're both essentially alone the girl just starting out in a married life where this isolation is de riguer. So movie message is (it's original) 'There's more to life than this'. The two get to spend time have a laugh, be open, close and real with each other, live a life together however briefly.
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| 2. What do you think Bob Harris whispered in her ear at the end of the movie? This has me stumped. What could he have said that so completely resolved the tension in both of them and made them both so happy with all that happened and the situations they were both left in? "We were meant to meet this week, and everything's going to work out for you. I love you." ? |
I think it was more that the tension between them that they'd shared something between each other and they were going to deny it by freezing up on each other was resolved. You're right there was nothing that could be said that wouldn't dissapoint one way or the other - it would be cheesy whatever he said. But as long as the connection is acknowledged then it's ok.
The whole movie set itself up to be a light hearted tragedy with the story starting out with the characters in slightly sh*t situations, they meet things get better, get better then 'hey life could be alright' then it goes wrong and things head downwards with possibility that life could turn out to be as crap as ever - until - 'hey, whispered words it was all for the good' .... happy ending. People go home smiling. It's nothing new but if you enjoy that sort of thing then you're going to like it. |
A good explanation, but I fail to see why it was set in Japan in particular. It sounds like it could happen anywhere, so Japan was chosen for its hip, cool appeal to young anime freakos or something...I have no idea, really. They could've done the same story in Nebraska or Adelaide or something. |
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Bulsajo
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| I thought the jetlag and the language and cultural differences heightened the sense of anomie that the characters were experiencing and so were as much a part of the movie as anything else, so it could have been set in other locations, but not Adelaide nor Nebraska, IMO. |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
If I raised one eyebrow, squinted the other eye and tilted my head to look at you....would you be able to get into my head??
It was one of those films where the moments built on each other to show you something instead of telling you what it is.
I loved it. |
ME too
It is not about obviousness, it tries to sparkle your imagination. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
http://www.lost-in-racism.org/
http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1130137,00.html
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Film reviewers have hailed Sofia Coppola's Lost in Translation as though it were the cinematic equivalent of the second coming. One paper even called it a masterpiece. Reading the praise, I couldn't help wondering not only whether I had watched a different movie, but whether the plaudits had come from a parallel universe of values. Lost in Translation is being promoted as a romantic comedy, but there is only one type of humour in the film that I could see: anti-Japanese racism, which is its very spine.
...
There is no scene where the Japanese are afforded a shred of dignity. The viewer is sledgehammered into laughing at these small, yellow people and their funny ways, desperately aping the western lifestyle without knowledge of its real meaning. It is telling that the longest vocal contribution any Japanese character makes is at a karaoke party, singing a few lines of the Sex Pistols' God Save the Queen.
The Japanese half of me is disturbed; the American half is too. The Japanese are one-dimensional and dehumanised in the movie, serving as an exotic background for Bob and Charlotte's story, like dirty wallpaper in a cheap hotel. How funny is it to put the 6ft-plus Bill Murray in an elevator with a number of overly small Japanese? To manufacture a joke, the film has Murray contorting himself to have a shower because its head isn't high enough for him - although he is supposed to be staying in a five-star hotel. It's made up simply to give western audiences another stereotype to laugh at. And haven't we had enough about the Japanese confusing rs and ls when they speak English?
While shoe-horning every possible caricature of modern Japan into her movie, Coppola is respectful of ancient Japan. It is depicted approvingly, though ancient traditions have very little to do with the contemporary Japanese. The good Japan, according to this director, is Buddhist monks chanting, ancient temples, flower arrangement; meanwhile she portrays the contemporary Japanese as ridiculous people who have lost contact with their own culture. |
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And how does this not represent the experiences of many expats/extended tourists in Asian countries? The essay assumes far too much and doesn't present a balanced view of what two stangers, alienated by their personal and geographic environments, think and feel and share. (And this is why Japan was such a good choice, Z. But I also think a good deal of it was inspired by Miss Coppola's personal experiences in Japan.)
The movie is Pico Iyer on the screen(with a little Murakami just for effect). Nothing more, and certainly nothing less.
Final Notes:
1. Anybody that engages in debate on Korean culture on this board from time to time should avoid accusing others of communicating through what can come across to the uninitiated as caricature.
2. If you think this movie sucks, you are an unmitigated poopyhead.
Last edited by flotsam on Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:41 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Juregen
Joined: 30 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Jul 31, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Zyzyfer wrote: |
A good explanation, but I fail to see why it was set in Japan in particular. It sounds like it could happen anywhere, so Japan was chosen for its hip, cool appeal to young anime freakos or something...I have no idea, really. They could've done the same story in Nebraska or Adelaide or something. |
Personally, Where it took place is not that important, what is important is that people do not speak the same language as they did, and for some people, Japanese tends to be a good language not many people understand, outside of Japan that is.
Also, there need to be a reason for them to meet, so you need something that has the chance of them meeting, since their worlds are a world apart. A bar at a decent hotel seems like a good place. It is just to enhance the feeling of loneliness. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| pocketfluff wrote: |
Boring and pretentious indeed. Same with Ms. Coppola's "The Virgin Suicides," and with what I imagine to be "Marie Antoinette."
I've said it before, I'll say it again: I really hate movies that try to portray the female sex as something mysterious never to be understood. |
Have to agree with you on the Virgin Suicides - I finished watching that movie thinking...so all those girls were incredibly stupid, and killed themselves for no reason?? Sums up Coppola Jr's first effort, stupid for no reason.
But that's where the agreeing ends...I'm probably somehow admitting to being a boofy bloke here, but....where exactly was the mystery here? Scarlett's character had motivation enough to explain what she was doing and why, and her sexuality didn't enter into it with the relationship.
Please explain... |
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pocketfluff
Joined: 30 May 2006
Location: Washington, DC (school) and Los Angeles, CA (home)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| happeningthang wrote: |
where exactly was the mystery here? Scarlett's character had motivation enough to explain what she was doing and why, and her sexuality didn't enter into it with the relationship.
Please explain... |
Lost in Translation is about two people with a huge age gap between them, sharing the similar feeling of being 'lost'. They're lonely and depressed while their significant others are out living their lives and being productive. You could not have asked for more unlikeable characters.
To an extent, I cut Bob (Murray's character) some slack, as he is an actor past his prime who has succumbed � against his artistic will � to the appeal of a quick $2 million. Understandable.
But Charlotte (Johansson)? Why would a young, beautiful, Yale-educated philosophy major find somewhere like Tokyo (of all the mundane places in the world!) suffocatingly boring? I'm not exactly sure how long she was supposed to have been in Tokyo before the inevitable shot of her silently staring out the window, but I was under the impression that it was under 24 hours.
I understand when some of you say you can relate to the characters as you yourselves are in a foreign land and have at times felt lonely and completely out of place. But really, who gets bored that quickly? The first half of the movie seemed to be nothing but Charlotte in her hotel room half dressed, staring out the window. Coppola wants the audience to wonder what on earth is going on in that pretty little head to merit such despair. It's like a contrived Calvin Klein 'Obession' ad where the camera does shot after long-shot of a brooding face. Mystery.
Speaking of long shots, I have a bone to pick about Sofia Coppola's egregious use of these to portray young women�s private moments. Woman waking up, woman in bathtub with her daydreams, woman just after she has said goodbye to her husband, woman looking longingly out window. Other than the perfection that is Scarlett Johansson's ass, what's so titillating about using the camera to intrude upon a woman's privacy (I doubt the opening shot was to satisfy the prurient interests of males everywhere)? It's great if Coppola herself is a naturally reflective person, but she really needs to stop portraying all her female protagonists as enigmas if she has no intent to explain why they've become that way.
The film is not without merit. The scene where Bob and Charlotte go to a hospital to have her injured foot examined is the funniest thing in the movie. However, Coppola's intentions and camera-use thereof does a disservice to us womenfolk, in addition to being nauseatingly pretentious. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:18 am Post subject: |
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When I first saw the movie when it was released, I didn't like it. But that's because I didn't get it. Then I saw it again a few weeks ago, and for some reason I loved it. I think it's because it was kind of a hyper-reality of my own experiences in Korea. How being away from your own culture can be lonely and isolating, yet oddly freeing. As it allows you to make connections with people that you wouldn't otherwise do so back home for whatever reason (in this case age, marital status).
Also as for the racism bit, there's plenty of sterotypes of white people. The whole educated girl/stupid girl thing with Johannsan and the actress. The point is it could have been filmed just about anywhere outside of the english speaking world, though Japan lends itself nicely as a well known 'modern, yet foreign' country.
Who doesn't forget that first drive in from Gimpo/Incheon looking out in jetlagged grogginess at this weird place where there were all these things jumping out at you to read, yet you couldn't understand it. Not being able to work your shower/washing machine/air con etc. because it's not like it was back home. Times when you look at the modern culture here and think 'what the hell are these people on?' or that last drive back where you take those mental postcards of a place.
| Quote: |
| But really, who gets bored that quickly? |
Me. I hated Korea when I first arrived. Took me a few months to warm to the place. |
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happeningthang
Joined: 26 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:54 am Post subject: |
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| pocketfluff wrote: |
Lost in Translation is about two people with a huge age gap between them, sharing the similar feeling of being 'lost'. They're lonely and depressed while their significant others are out living their lives and being productive. You could not have asked for more unlikeable characters.
To an extent, I cut Bob (Murray's character) some slack, as he is an actor past his prime who has succumbed � against his artistic will � to the appeal of a quick $2 million. Understandable.
But Charlotte (Johansson)? Why would a young, beautiful, Yale-educated philosophy major find somewhere like Tokyo (of all the mundane places in the world!) suffocatingly boring? I'm not exactly sure how long she was supposed to have been in Tokyo before the inevitable shot of her silently staring out the window, but I was under the impression that it was under 24 hours.
I understand when some of you say you can relate to the characters as you yourselves are in a foreign land and have at times felt lonely and completely out of place. But really, who gets bored that quickly? The first half of the movie seemed to be nothing but Charlotte in her hotel room half dressed, staring out the window. Coppola wants the audience to wonder what on earth is going on in that pretty little head to merit such despair. It's like a contrived Calvin Klein 'Obession' ad where the camera does shot after long-shot of a brooding face. Mystery.
Speaking of long shots, I have a bone to pick about Sofia Coppola's egregious use of these to portray young women�s private moments. Woman waking up, woman in bathtub with her daydreams, woman just after she has said goodbye to her husband, woman looking longingly out window. Other than the perfection that is Scarlett Johansson's ass, what's so titillating about using the camera to intrude upon a woman's privacy (I doubt the opening shot was to satisfy the prurient interests of males everywhere)? It's great if Coppola herself is a naturally reflective person, but she really needs to stop portraying all her female protagonists as enigmas if she has no intent to explain why they've become that way.
The film is not without merit. The scene where Bob and Charlotte go to a hospital to have her injured foot examined is the funniest thing in the movie. However, Coppola's intentions and camera-use thereof does a disservice to us womenfolk, in addition to being nauseatingly pretentious. |
OK...
Well, I got the impression she was in Tokyo and the hotel for months (not sure why) and was there to be with the newly married to husband (who rather than being productive, was shown to be shallow). So she's left alone in a foreign country to wonder what's up with her relationship, and post graduation (in Philosophy!!) what to do with her life. To me that explained what she was doing and feeling, so ...no mystery.
She does seem to be a bit introspective for someone with her looks, but that's just movies isn't it? Maybe a better question for womanhood is why does hollywood use beautiful actresses and make up to play 'ugly' charcters?? Gwenweth Palytrow in Shallow Hal, and Charlize Theron in Monster.
The excessive long takes I thought were more to do with a cinematic representation of those 'still' moments when you're alone and lonely. I did notice that Charlotte got them all while Bill Murray worked for comic relief (both got some private moments shown, and really any guy who's lived with a woman doesn't have that much prurient interest left in everyday slothfulness). Still, is there much popular appeal in watching a half naked BM lounging about being wistful?? Not for me. So, yeah, you're probably right, there is an element of 'eye candy' for the boys, but come on....
There's a lot worse in hollywood female representation to be upset about out there.
Just as a thought -- could you cite an example of a good representation? |
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eamo
Joined: 08 Mar 2003
Location: Shepherd's Bush, 1964.
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 6:08 am Post subject: |
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The first time I watched Lost in Translation I loved every minute of it from start (Scarlett's arse) to finish.
I just find that kind of movie so refreshing in this age of blockbuster epics and special effect vehicles. Lost in Translation, as an astute poster said before, presents a story without slamming it down your throat. The watcher can add to, and see themselves in, the characters motivations.
It's slowburning and subtle but with enough meaty moments to carry the watcher to a wonderfully mysterious end. I love to see a movie that doesn't do a Disney ending now and then.
I laughed out loud when Bill Murray said something like, "What kind of restaurant makes you cook your own food??!!". Living in Korea I had forgotten that it's a little weird in the West to be brought raw meat to the table. |
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pocketfluff
Joined: 30 May 2006
Location: Washington, DC (school) and Los Angeles, CA (home)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 01, 2006 8:08 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
There's a lot worse in hollywood female representation to be upset about out there.
Just as a thought -- could you cite an example of a good representation? |
For the record, it's not my job to tell Hollywood how to represent women. Directors for the most part aren't out to use their film as a vehicle to paint an entire gender a certain way. I've enjoyed many movies regardless them featuring prostitutes (Pretty Woman, LA Confidential), helpless ladies in distress (The Princess Bride), or vacuous socialites (Amadeus).
My rant has more to do with how overrated I think Coppola is. She's become a film industry darling based on two stories (Virgin Suicides, LiT) in which the main characters strive to be enigmatic. The fact that said characters are women makes me wonder what the hell she thinks of herself.
I'm not usually nit-picky about movies; as long as the story is well-told and entertaining, I'm fine. Even with mediocre films (and I consider LiT a mediocre film), I won't be bothered to write scathing reviews. However, Coppola's record of painting women as a mystery (Marie Antoinette, from what I've read, also features the title character moping, sighing and running down hallways suffocating in angst) gets under my skin, especially when she gets so much acclaim for it. |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 6:40 am Post subject: |
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| *beep* me if I know why, but I kind of liked it. |
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Qinella
Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Location: the crib
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| TheFonz wrote: |
| I found it boring and uneventful. Scarlet Johanson is overrated. Her acting ability is sub-par and her personality seems about the same in every movie I have seen her in. |
Yes but have you seen her in Ghost World? Now that's a freakin movie. Whew. |
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Tiberious aka Sparkles
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Fri Dec 08, 2006 8:37 am Post subject: |
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Boring and pretentious? Boring I can see, maybe, though I love LinT like I love my Richard size.
But pretentious? Come on, now. |
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