Korean Job Discussion Forums

matko · Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: in a world of hurt!

I think the guy is a dolt..........but........

How does the government know he became an American citizen for the explicit purpose of avoiding the army? Just curious.

How are other Koreans who become American citizens treated? Are they also banned from the country or do they have the same rights as other Americans? Just curious about that as well.

If the government can PROVE that he did what he did to avoid the army, fine, ban the guy.

If they can't, ban every person who changes citizenship.

BTW, I thought it was now ok to have dual citizenship in Korea Confused

yodanole · Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Location: La Florida

As a person who has lived through the draft, I have a low opinion of draft dodgers.

yodanole · Joined: 02 Mar 2003 Location: La Florida

As a person who has lived through the draft, I have a low opinion of draft dodgers.

maryk · Posted: Thu Jun 26, 2003 5:45 am Post subject:

just saw the news footage of him arriving at incheon airport this morning. it was about what you'd expect. there was a group of men yelling "yankee go home" and another group of teenage girls yelling "we love you oppa!" gotta love the adjoshis who woke up at 3 AM, just so they could at the airport at 5:20 AM to get their "yankee go home" chants in. it's all about priorities man. he also had a bunch of security surrounding him and he was still getting shoved around. looked like he was about to cry.

jvalmer · Joined: 06 Jun 2003

Being a close friend to a kyopo, this is what I know. Kyopo strictly means immigrant. However, it is a term usually used to describe any ethnic Korean who grew up in or North America. This includes both people born in Korea and outside of Korea. Their are other terms for Koreans from other countries.

If your name appears in the ancestoral register (hojuk), you are considered a Korean citizen. Once you turn 18, you are supposed to inform the appropriate authority to get your name removed. Obviously, many don't do it this, considereing their are over 5 million ethinic Koreans overseas. In many cases it isn't the father or mother who registers the birth of the child, but a grandfather, aunt or uncle.

So, if you are an unsuspecting male kyopo who enters Korea, unaware of your status, you are subject to the draft. Immigration are quite competent on flagging registered kyopos who enter the country with a foreign passport. However, immigration usually treats kyopos born outside of Korean very well. Usually by pulling them aside and informing them of their status and telling them to get their name removed from the hojuk. However the treatment of kyopos born in Korea is very ambigous.

That's what I have been told.

jvalmer · Joined: 06 Jun 2003

It should be noted that even thought the World Cup team got exemptions for military service, it only applied to 3 or 4 players. Most of the team have completed their service.

Considering the state of Canada's military. I sometimes think that Canada should have some kind of mandatory military/national service. Being a girl, I think it should apply to both.

makushi · Joined: 08 Jun 2003

candu · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

He hasn't broken any laws whatsoever, but sadly that doesn't seem matter. He went back on a supposed promise (to the Korean public) to serve in the Korean military and opted for American citizenship (he had spent a number of years living in the US). A questionable choice in the opinion of many, but perfectly legal. My point is that he is an American citizen and deserves to be granted the opportunity to visit here, just as if he were any other US citizen, not to mention the fact that as a Kyopo he would likely be eligible for an F4 and all that visa entails. Barring him from Korea has everything to do with wounded "pride" and nothing to do with legalities. Sadly, as is often the case here, emotionalism cancels out reason, even at the highest levels of government.

On the other hand · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue

Didn't the USA have, until quite recently, a law(McCann-Warren Act?) barring foreigners from entering if the authroities thought they'd be spreading anti-American propagnada? Does this show any less of a national penchant for "emotionalism" than Korea barring the hip-pop wannabe because he might encourage young men to skip the draft? Remember, folks, Yoo Seung-joon is NOT a Korean citizen.

maryk · Posted: Fri Jun 27, 2003 5:23 am Post subject:

Romulus · Joined: 07 May 2003 Location: Ilbon/Japan

The haves weasel out or use military service to propel a political career.Even when they serve its rare they are in the thick of it.Most are assigned to some REMF units where the brown nosing is better.Its probably better anyhow most of the grunts hate the snotty nose brats anyhow they are the biggest whiners. Its all about the money with these people there is no such thing as patriotism they worship the color green or whatever money is the flavor or the week. Waking up at three in the morning to meet this dodger is funny though real patriotism! I geuss there are people there who hate the dodger too for personal reasons.

Something to think about though.Marc Rich traded oil with our enemies both Iraq and Iran when sanctions were in place.He made billions from it.Ran away to Switzerland.His wife donated millions to former president Clinton's presidential library fund and bought himself a pardon.Our sons and daughters are over there in the middle east (Iraq,kuwait,Afganistan,Saudi Arabia etc.) dying everday.For who and what the Marc Rich's of the world! Maybe this kid feels the same way too.Why waste a life for what to defend the Kim Dae Jungs of the world? Mr 100Million dollar buy yourself a Nobel Prize Sunshine Man! I wonder if his kids served?

candu · Joined: 16 Jan 2003

Yeah, he isn't a Korean citizen anymore. He chose to become an American. (Had he become a Canadian or Australian, I'm certain the situation would have been much different.) If his changing of nationality was not such a charged emotional issue, there would have been no problem with his entry into Korea. Once again, he has broken no laws, so what legal basis is there for denying his entry? None. I would be just as critical of a similar situation were it to occur in the US or Canada where people admittedly get emotional upon occasion, but generally are not barred because they change citizenship!

On the other hand · Joined: 19 Apr 2003 Location: I walk along the avenue

Maryk quote:
if you can show me that it does exist, and then show me specific examples in which it's been used to deny entry for those specific reasons, i'll listen. until then, i won't.

Maryk: Sorry. My mistake. The bill in question was called McCarran-Warren. It was passed in 1952, over the objections of President Truman, and not repealed until 1994. It was used as recently as the Reagan era to deny entry to the writers Carlos Fuentes and Gabriel Garcia Marquez.
My linking skills aren't exactly up to snuff, but you can find info on this at www.skepticism.org On the home page, find the section marked Politics and Culture, and click on the subheading "Terrorism". If you have some reason to distrust this particular site, I'm sure there's alot of other stuff on the internet about it.
Anyway, my original point still stands: there is no less "emotionalism"(Candu's phrase)involved in something like McCarran-Warren than there is in barring the hip-hop dude from Korea, but some people on this board seem to think Korean over-reaction is so much more worthy of condemnation.

billbile · Joined: 10 Apr 2003

quote:
"Looks like the government is making an example of him."

It would be nice if they now went ahead and made examples of the politician's children who are doing the exact same thing. Not only do their kids avoid their duty, but they send their family overseas to study, demonstrating their lack of confidence in the Korean education system, when they are the ones with the power and ability to actually do anything about it. But they just don't give a hoot. All a lot of them are there for is to rake in buckets of money for themselves.

Same hypocrisy goes for things like imports. There are huge duties on imported things like, for arguments sake, baby milk powder, so that poor or average income families are forced to buy the Korean stuff which is considered dodgy, it has a bad name*. This is done to protect Korean companies so that politicians can squeeze even more bribes out of them. And the whole issue bypasses politicians, since they are so fantastically wealthy and can keep their wives in mink coats many times over, and needless to say their children and grandchildren can have all the foreign milk powder they need. This kind of thing stinks.

Anyway, I digress. The message this Yoo case sends is that if you are rich and powerful you may avoid your duty, but not if you are actually talented. That is precisely the example Korea does not need - there's been enough of it.

I hope another huge batch of these hypocrites is swept out of the parliament in next year's election.

*nobody knows any of the brandnames of the dodgy products because the media rarely name dodgy products. This casts a slur on the name of all Korean products, making it no wonder that Koreans prefer foreign-made products.