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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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 Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Another chihuahua wrote: |
| Big, Bloated, Bird-Feet wrote: |
| You are unable to answer my questions properly, and don't have the wit to even compensate with a remotely humourous reponse... |
I did not read your post (except for this line, which was the first line and is also in bold print).
In any case, are you aware that both you and BLT have the very annoying habit of chronically stepping in as a ref between yourself and someone who you are attacking (you call it "debate") and you always judge your own posts the height of logic and wit -- or "meatiness," as BLT has said about his own posts in the past -- while others are usually described as, well, see above? |
A clear case of pot and kettle.
I think, Gopher, the same can be said of yourself. You are one of the worse offenders on this forum in fact. You have no patience for anyone holding a dissenting view, and instead of debating someone's position using reason and logic, you always resort to personal attacks and to lambasting your oponent as "hysterical, sneering, ranting, rabidly anti-american etc etc etc." It's for this reason alone I disrespect you, not because of your opposing views, which you are welcome to have. There are posters on this board with very different opinions to mine for whom I have a lot of respect, and whose writings I read with interest. You are not one of them as your posts are too heavily soaked in your own ego and self righteousness. I do like a bit of a dogfight from time to time, it's true; however, it's rare that I throw the first punch.
But I don't intend to get into any further 'debate' with you as we always run around in circles ....... Been there, done that. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| ...it's rare that I throw the first punch. |
Did not really read but just skimmed through your post because I already know what it says and probably what its tone is.
This assertion did jump out at me, though.
Please take a second and review the steps you went through when you created this thread. That is, I am only talking about this thread, and not bringing up all of the other sneering threads you have started, particularly with respect to your allegations/accusations or whatever you insist on calling it (but, in any case, far from the rational, scholarly-debate-oriented thing that you congratulate yourself for all the time) you have made against the U.S. using hostile, antiAmerican op-eds or nearly hundred-year old books from former Marine officers that you find to "justify" your worldview.
Incidentally, the superlative for "bad" is "the worst," as in "one of the worst," and not "one of the worse," which makes you look like a bad writer.
However that may be, please provide any example where I have asserted, in the same style that you and BLT have often done, that "my superior logic" trumps someone else's logic, etc., again, and not I am emphasizing the ludicrously arrogant style you and BLT adopt, constantly talking about and congratulating yourselves, that is, and in your case, sometimes in the third person, too.
Show me where I have done anything like that... |
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ChuckECheese
Joined: 20 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| However that may be, please provide any example where I have asserted, in the same style that you and BLT have often done, that "my superior logic" trumps someone else's logic, etc., again, and not I am emphasizing the ludicrously arrogant style you and BLT adopt, constantly talking about and congratulating yourselves, that is, and in your case, sometimes in the third person, too. |
I think BLT and BB are the same person with different ID. |
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Atassi
Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Location: 평택
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Incidentally, the superlative for "bad" is "the worst," as in "one of the worst," and not "one of the worse," which makes you look like a bad writer. |
Hmm...BB may have meant to say "worst", but you are also incorrect. It is completely okay in speech to use "one of the worse". By insisting that you have to be not just "one of the worse offenders" but "one of the worst offenders on this forum" seems to indicate that you have a pretty low self-esteem. 
I don't especially care for vitriolic remarks and name-calling by any side of a debate, so I'm not entering this one  |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
You then assign all those viewpoints to your own imaginary construct of who you believe Big_Bird is. These viewpoints are attributed to me despite a total lack of evidence for them, and indeed even in the face of glaring contradictory evidence.
In fact, you have very little inkling about what I believe... |
Actually we know very clearly what your worldview is. You have proclaimed it again and again, loud and clear in your sneering style, and it is simply impossible to miss...
Exhibit A: A thread you created titled "Three Cheers for Chavez."
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=553512&highlight=#553512
You have also written multiple apologia for Chavez and his antiAmericanist worldview, even expressing your "delight" while doing so...
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=763703&highlight=#763703
Exhibit B: You have written apologia after apologia for groups such as Hamas (always seasoned with diatribe after diatribe against the Israelis, of course)...
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Hamas are a popular grass roots organisation. The PLO became more and more unpopular with Arafats capitulations during the Oslo agreements. The PLO enjoyed the perks of wealth and power, while the ordinary Palestinians were in fact made worse off by the so called 'peace talks.' During this time, the expansion of illegal Israeli settlements rapidly accelerated and the living standards of the occupied people further eroded. The Palestinians felt betrayed by Fatah and began looking for an alternative.
Hamas also provided schools, medical facilities and other social services which directly benefitted ordinary Palestinians... |
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=707447&highlight=#707447
Exhibit C: my favorite ones, by the way. Two threads you started, one of them with two allegations in one, called "US trained Salvador-style death squads operating in Iraq?" and the other using the propagandistic word "massacre" to stir up anti-U.S. sentiments here...
Note you talking about yourself in the third-person in your into, again...?
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Bloodshot eyes wild and rolling, saliver [sic] drooling from her tortured twisted lips, snarling and barking, consumed with blind rage and loathing for the US, and anything else at all (especially if Gopher happened to like it), Gopher's rabid reconstructed, predictible and very hysterical (always hysterical) Big_Bird wrote... |
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?t=56752&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=
http://www.eslcafe.com/forums/korea/viewtopic.php?p=792322&highlight=#792322
So do not, in your rush to make more of yourself than you are, start talking like Said and claim that those of us who see right through you and your agenda here are creating "imaginary constructs" when all we have actually been doing is reading what you have been peddling here, which, however you want to sell it, is exactly what people of the far left are saying in the press and anywhere else for that matter.
And with that, I wash my hands of this thread and leave to you anyone else who wants to support or disagree with what I have written here. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 10:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| Big, Bloated, Bird-Feet wrote: |
| You are unable to answer my questions properly, and don't have the wit to even compensate with a remotely humourous reponse... |
I did not read your post (except for this line, which was the first line and is also in bold print).
In any case, are you aware that both you and BLT have the very annoying habit of chronically stepping in as a ref between yourself and someone who you are attacking (you call it "debate") and you always judge your own posts the height of logic and wit -- or "meatiness," as BLT has said about his own posts in the past -- while others are usually described as, well, see above? |
Nothing here, GoDumbya. Per usual. The hypocrisy - and utter stupidity - of the bolded portion above is... typical. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:35 am Post subject: |
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Gopher, I won't enter into this any further than to say you are confusing a certain about of mischievousness for something far more serious. It's true that I sometimes bait my posts in such a way as to provoke a bigger response from the conservative corner...but you clearly take my postings far more seriously than intended. I think you have a very unhealthy obsession with ELT trainer and myself...and you ought to reflect on why you treat this place so seriously. Most of us consider it a fun past-time. You act as if you are on an important mission. Why is this forum so important to you? It's a little weird...
I suggest you really ought to chill out.
PS: carping on about other's tipos, speling or error grammors (real or imagined) is very poor netiquette, and something I make a point of refraining from. It has the effect of making one look rather petty. This is supposed to be a casual past-time. None of us are here to write legal documents. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Most of us consider it a fun past-time... |
Sorry, that does not wash. Not given the pattern of your shrill posts... |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:04 am Post subject: Re: Questions for BWJD |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
I thought I ought to start a new thread, so as not to continue the Hijacking of Buncheon Bum's
| That annoying pest BXYZ or whatever he is called wrote: |
| When crimes of muslims are brought up, you denounce the messenger and ignore the crime. Then talk about yourself. You don't care about women's rights. You only care about protecting multiculturalism. |
OK, you've been following me around like a crazed rottweiler for some time now pouncing out from every thread with one or another axe to grind...
Questions:
1) Which muslims crimes am I ignoring? Please be specific.
2) From which of my posts did you get the idea that I think gender inequality in the muslim world is totally acceptable?
3) At what time did I discuss protecting multiculturism (I don't recall ever bringing it up)?
4) What specifically are my views on multiculturalism? Please be explicit.
Finally,
5) If you had to retrieve and feed to your child a fallen slice of pizza from
a) a muslim toilet
b) a christian toilet
which toilet would you retrieve the pizza from? Yes I know you wouldn't choose either pizza, but if you HAD to choose which would you choose? CHOOSE! |
Oh god oh god oh god (said the confirmed agnostic not concerned with what god is), please save me and the world from earnest idiots.
And please, Big Bird, stop calling yourself a liberal -- it gives real liberals like me and BJWD and Gopher a bad name. You're just a sentimentalist with a baby who understands that suffering is bad but not that people sometimes bring about their own suffering by way of their hateful ideology.
The questions weren't for me, but in his refusal to treat you like a thinking human being (understable enough), I assume BJWD thought to dismiss your questions out of hand with snarky humor. I'll answer them anyway, to the extent that I am able to since I haven't got it in me to search out your posts to cut and paste. If I get any of the specifics wrong, please take me to task and post quoted examples.
1) Suicide bombings, widely held beliefs in and often repeated calls for the death of all Jews, rhetoric designed by leaders to inflame Muslim masses against the West and keep them from pondering their own horrid situations that the governments in question keep them in. Um, let me see ... clitorectomies, stoning of female adulterers, death sentences for gays, women not having any say in governments. Have you ever started a thread that bewailed any of the above? Why don't these things bother you enough to say something about it? Is it because you're a product of a comfortable, Western democracy who is so comfortable she has no actual sense of how wretched life is for most people in Middle Eastern sheikdoms and that the principal cause of this wretchedness is that their leaders are rotten bass-tards who couldn't care less about the life of their average citizen?
2) (See disclaimer above) Probably that though you spend a lot of time decrying how illiberal it is to think that large segments of Islam are racist hotbeds, you fail to ever rail against the sexism, racism, homophobia and anti-non-Muslimism that so characterize much of the Muslim world. Probably that you take Westerners to task for being racist but give those poor oppressed Muslims carte blanche (by dint of your silence about the horrors they inflict on a majority of their populations).
3) Actually, I think what BJWD said is pretty spot on, but I guess to a simplistic, earnest mind, not having found yourself ever having stated, "I defend multiculturalism" was enough for you, even though you clearly do defend the idea that large groups of people can live together holding to widely divergent ideas about how groups of people should live together, to the point of defending people who hold ideas, and act on them, that if widely adopted would be the death knell of the societies in question and in particular your right to hold ideas at all, let alone ideas that diverged from the idea the women ought not hold opinions of their own. To the point of needing to label anyone who points out this conundrum as a conservative bent on hatred and ethnocentrism.
4) See #3.
5) Oh, shut up. Don't be stupid. It's this kind of "bait," even if not meant to be taken "seriously" that gives thinking people the idea that you're an idiot, in thrall to the easy, sentimental idea that the underdog is always right, regardless of any dispassionate look at the facts. But since you insist, if I found myself in your toilet world with no other options, I would kill my child and then myself, knowing that whatever came after couldn't be as vile as that choice, either for me or the child. Whereas you would feed your child on both pizzas, even knowing that no better choices would ever be likely to present themselves, that you would be eating pizzas out of toilets or the corn out of turds until you died anyway. And I guess that's the salient difference between being your stripe of atheist and my stripe of agnostic. I can imagine something worse than death. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Questions for BWJD |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| And please, Big Bird, stop calling yourself a liberal -- it gives real liberals like me and BJWD and Gopher a bad name. |
No wonder the Dems haven't won since Clinton.... I wish you were joking... GoDumbya gives new meaning to the term, "Do Nothing Democrats." |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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You are using the American meaning of Liberal, which is different than the one i use.
To the American, Liberal is something like a centrist social democrat, which I am not.
When I call myself a liberal, i mean that I believe in the ideas of secularism, the enlightenment, science, individual rights, the market, limited government and high degrees of personal freedom and responsibility. I am a liberal in this sense. |
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EFLtrainer
Joined: 04 May 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:12 pm Post subject: |
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And to do nothing in the face of tyranny? This is DoDumbya's take on how to win the white hosue and congress: speak nicely (hypocrite) and carry a pocket protector.
That's not going to get it done.
Where are you on this? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Oct 02, 2006 11:14 pm Post subject: |
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huh?
Who the hell is dodumbya? is that your pet name for Bush?
huh? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:01 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| huh?...When I call myself a liberal, i mean that I believe in the ideas of secularism, the enlightenment, science, individual rights, the market, limited government and high degrees of personal freedom and responsibility. I am a liberal in this sense. |
Do try to ignore the howler monkey unless it is necessary to address him. You'll get nowhere trying to talk or let alone reason with him...He is Big_Bird in male garb.
Your definition of "liberal," by the way, is the same one every educated person I know uses it, whereever they are in the world (and I am an American, as you know, so some of us use it this way as well, particularly on campus).
The FoxNews vs. CNN debate club and their avid followers' definition(s) notwithstanding, of course... |
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