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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| As scarce resources become even more scarce (due to competition for consumption between regions, groups, nations etc) their price will increase. We can never "run out" of anything, as long as a price-system is functioning. |
I agree the price system is pretty much the only way to control limited resources. "We're low on tin. Use 20% less." How do you transmit that idea through an entire population? Memos (that not everyone is going to get) and jail for people who don't use 20% less? And some people with connections won't have to use 20% less?
In the 50s and 60s we were consuming tin like crazy. Cans, right. The price of tin shot up. And then everyone switched to aluminum. And then when that price went up, we switched to plastic bottles.
You'll also notice the price of oil has been dropping. High oil makes alt-energy cost effective. They can ream us for a couple years, but the biggest danger the oil companies face is keeping oil above $55 for too long. That's when a lot of alt-energy becomes cost effective. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:28 am Post subject: |
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MM2,
I agree. Governments should tax the hell out of oil. Keep the price high and let industry and consumers know that it is going to stay that way. Watch alternatives jump out of the blue. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| We're running out of some very important ressources: potable water, copper, petroleum (even if we all switch to electric engines, we're still screwed because we use oil to make polymers), etc. The ozone layer is pretty messed up, too. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 8:36 am Post subject: |
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No we aren't. Not even a little bit. "We" aren't running out of water at all. Some nations aren't able to manage their water supply properly and others never had much to begin with. But the world is not running out of water.
Oil, well, no. Read about the Oil Sands in Alberta. Big stuff.
Copper, no. The more is costs the harder we will look and the more we will find. By the time it is close to "running out" we won't be using it anymore cause it will be too expensive.
But the ozone, I've seen conflicting stuff. NASA exaggerated the problem to get more funding. But, I think it is clear that there is a problem. |
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Summer Wine
Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Location: Next to a River
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| No we aren't. Not even a little bit. "We" aren't running out of water at all. |
Water is finite. Water doesn't produce water.
People is infinite, People would produce people on Mars. |
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Yo!Chingo
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: Seoul Korea
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 2:47 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
| No we aren't. Not even a little bit. "We" aren't running out of water at all. Some nations aren't able to manage their water supply properly and others never had much to begin with. But the world is not running out of water. |
Salt water no, fresh water yes. The ground water table is getting lower and ground water wells are having to go deeper and deeper to tap the aquifers. I saw it time and time again in areas where subdivisions would sprout up. The 1st 50 homeowners would build big 3000 square ft homes and drill a 400 ft well. They would have all the water they needed. The next 50 homeowners 5 years down the line would be drilling an extra 100 ft at $50 American a foot.
Like it was pointed out, fresh water in finite. I remember sitting in my 1st biology class and my Professor, Dr Grimmes, said, " If you want to be a millionair, invest in water." I'm still looking at desalinization technologies and trying to pick the winning horse. We will all be drinking former salt water before 2050 and the men/women who are in on the technology will be billionairs. Think about it! You can live for 7 days without food, but only 3 without water. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
MM2,
I agree. Governments should tax the hell out of oil. Keep the price high and let industry and consumers know that it is going to stay that way. Watch alternatives jump out of the blue. |
Should  But a government would be torn from office by enraged voters if it tried. |
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Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| We can never "run out" of anything, as long as a price-system is functioning. |
To a point... but even the most rationally functional price system can't cause there to be more oil once there ain't none left. |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| BJWD wrote: |
No we aren't. Not even a little bit. "We" aren't running out of water at all. Some nations aren't able to manage their water supply properly and others never had much to begin with. But the world is not running out of water.
Oil, well, no. Read about the Oil Sands in Alberta. Big stuff.
Copper, no. The more is costs the harder we will look and the more we will find. By the time it is close to "running out" we won't be using it anymore cause it will be too expensive.
But the ozone, I've seen conflicting stuff. NASA exaggerated the problem to get more funding. But, I think it is clear that there is a problem. |
Don't take what I wrote too literally. Drinking water will get very expensive because it won't be as simple to produce it as it is now because of increasing pollution. Producing copper will not be cost effective. Even if there is a lot of oil in Alberta, it is not in an infinite quantity (it's also the most expensive oil to extract). |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| Even if there is a lot of oil in Alberta, it is not in an infinite quantity (it's also the most expensive oil to extract). |
Of course it's not infinite, but if cars switch to biofuels, there's certainly an awful lot to turn into plastic. Also coal, I believe, could be used as a source for plastic. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Hater Depot wrote: |
| Quote: |
| We can never "run out" of anything, as long as a price-system is functioning. |
To a point... but even the most rationally functional price system can't cause there to be more oil once there ain't none left. |
A price system would ensure that using oil will become prohibitively expensive as supplies dwindle. This will increase the use of non-fossil fuels. As the price increases, consumption will decrease and this will continue until oil is not longer a reasonable way to fire engines.
We will never, ever, ever run out of oil. Never. |
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JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| The Earth needs 2 billion fewer consumers. By Monday. |
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Delirium's Brother
Joined: 08 May 2006
Location: Out in that field with Rumi, waiting for you to join us!
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| Posted: Wed Oct 25, 2006 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Hollywoodaction wrote: |
| We're running out of some very important ressources: potable water, copper, petroleum (even if we all switch to electric engines, we're still screwed because we use oil to make polymers), etc. The ozone layer is pretty messed up, too. |
Everything you said here is probably true, expect the last part. The ozone layer has improved since the almost universal banning of CFCs. The holes are shrinking. Just heard a report saying as much. Time to revise your list of `problems with the world', everybody. |
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Meegook
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:08 am Post subject: |
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This is the BS I heard back in the '70s when in college.
Same crap guys like Paul Ehrlich was spewing until Julian Simon made him put his money where is big mouth was and Ehrlich lost the bet.
My bet is most if not all of you have never even heard of Julian Simon.
http://www.overpopulation.com/faq/People/julian_simon.html
| Quote: |
| Of course it's not infinite, |
It is if the abiotic theory of oil is correct.
The world's problem now is not over population, it's under-population.
Like just about everything else you think you know, the opposite is true.
Last edited by Meegook on Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:18 am; edited 1 time in total |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 26, 2006 2:11 am Post subject: |
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| Normal font dude. Why is that so hard. |
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