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otis
Joined: 02 Jun 2006
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 Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
I think the person who posted that old map that showed the Confederacy and the states open to slavery is very interesting. In the South, the plantation owners controlled things. There was no industry. There was almost a sense of an aristocracy more than there was in the North. The North gave up on the South when it came to integrating African Americans until the 1960s. To be fair, many in the South supported this, or it would not have happened.
However, it does speak volumes when racism is used in places like Tennessee and some parts of the South. That has nothing to do with a choice over Socialism and Republicanism. There is a huge gap between various regions of the U.S. The South has many who oppose the Democrats not simply because of an economic program. Some would support the Democrats if they went out against gay marriage and abortion. There is a cultural conflict in the country. It is not simply about economics. The country must sort that one out.
I think the political system should have several political political parties because Americans differ substantially on many issues, and it would make political corruption more difficult and help re-introduce populism. |
That's just pure crap.
The south is far more integrated than the north. I live so far down south that I'd fall into the Gulf of Mexico if I took another step. Nobody ever talks about gay marriage. Nobody cares.
Most people don't vote Democrat because the party has been hijacked by the far left.
It has nothing to do with skin color or anything else.
Christ, Howard Dean is the chairman. That should tell you something. |
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Boodleheimer
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 5:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Poemer wrote: |
| I believe Germany in the years immediately following the all too brief flourishing of the Weimar republic holds the distinction as the most gullible electorate ever. . . I mean, even I wouldn't liken Bush to Hitler. |
the USA: second only to Nazi Germany.
not the greatest tourism slogan |
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djsmnc
Joined: 20 Jan 2003
Location: Dave's ESL Cafe
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, also a gross analogy too. The fact is that a lot of young people don't vote, and a lot of people in the places that elected Bush are quite conservative.
Putting the US on par with the Nazis is absolutely shameful.
Yes, corporate greed and anti-terrorist propaganda has led to some unfortunate behavior on behalf of American politicians, but claiming that the US is second to the Nazis is quite ignorant and offensive. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:03 pm Post subject: |
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| djsmnc wrote: |
Yeah, also a gross analogy too. The fact is that a lot of young people don't vote, and a lot of people in the places that elected Bush are quite conservative.
Putting the US on par with the Nazis is absolutely shameful.
Yes, corporate greed and anti-terrorist propaganda has led to some unfortunate behavior on behalf of American politicians, but claiming that the US is second to the Nazis is quite ignorant and offensive. |
Ya, I can quite readily think up some other regimes that would be inbetween the US and the Nazis, and I am still undecided between pre 1945 Japan and the Nazis as to which was worse, though in the end, doesn't really matter as both were bad. |
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Boodleheimer
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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only one week left until we find out the direction things are headed...
i mailed in my absentee ballot a month ago.
<<<please, america, don't disappoint me again>>> |
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RACETRAITOR
Joined: 24 Oct 2005
Location: Seoul, South Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| otis wrote: |
I don't think the American electorate is stupid.
They have no choice. They can choose between Republicans or Socialists. There's no Democratic Party.
Look at the choice we'll probably have in 2008. It'll be Hillary Clinton and Barrac Obama taking on Mitt Romney and Jeb Bush.
You can choose the socialist who wants to turn America into a European style system, or you can choose the Republican.
I'm no Republican, but...Hillary Clinton? C'mon. |
The Democrats would move further right if they get more power. And what's with the worry about socialism anyway? Do you think that suddenly everyone will start speaking Russian? The Cold War is over. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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I don't understand "some" Americans. They don't go after Bush, but go after The Dixie Chics instead. 
This is done in the same spirit as the man himself. Bush didn't go after Bin Laden, but Saddam instead. |
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flotsam
Joined: 28 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Dev wrote: |
I don't understand "some" Americans. They don't go after Bush, but go after The Dixie Chics instead.
This is done in the same spirit as the man himself. Bush didn't go after Bin Laden, but Saddam instead. |
This post is completely senseless. So senseless, I don' t think you can feel the keyboard when you type. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Most people don't vote Democrat because the party has been hijacked by the far left.
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Please define what you mean by 'far left'. |
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Dev
Joined: 18 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| flotsam wrote: |
| Dev wrote: |
I don't understand "some" Americans. They don't go after Bush, but go after The Dixie Chics instead.
This is done in the same spirit as the man himself. Bush didn't go after Bin Laden, but Saddam instead. |
This post is completely senseless. So senseless, I don' t think you can feel the keyboard when you type. |
Oh, Your highness seasoned poster, please show us YOUR brilliance! |
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Boodleheimer
Joined: 10 Mar 2006
Location: working undercover for the Man
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
Most people don't vote Democrat because the party has been hijacked by the far left.
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Please define what you mean by 'far left'. |
yeah, i think the only way the democratic party would be classified as "far left" is if McCarthyism was "middle of the road" |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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I'm not worried about the US electorate, I'm worried about those voting machines that keep NO back-up record of the votes cast, so if there are glitches or tampering there will be no way to prove how the votes really went. A lot of people don't understand the problems and dangers associated with those types of voting machines.
One of many articles about the security probs of Diebold machines:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1064 |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:16 am Post subject: |
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whoever said the Democratic Party has been taken over by the far left is nuts. As Jim Hightower once said "Bill Clinton was one of the best Republican Presidents we've ever had"
Problem is the Democratic Party HASN'T GONE FAR ENOUGH TO THE LEFT!!!!!!!!!!! They sound like Republican Lite. Where is the party of FDR? The minority, the working man, the middle class? I dont see that Democratic Party anymore. The Democract running for Senate in Tenn, is anti-gun control, pro-prayer in schools, supports W in many aspects of Iraq. That aint a Democract
Hillary actually co-sponsered an Amendment to the Constitution banning flag burning! She should surrender her ACLU membership card
Besides not going far enough to the left, the Democracts have offered no "vision" all they say is "vote for us, we aren't republicans" they are bankrolled by the same special interests that bankroll the Republicans. They are so friggin timid of being smeared by Rove and friends they dont make the bold policy statements that are needed.
We need more people like Howard Dean out front and not Harry Reid. |
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hogwonguy1979
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: the racoon den
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| canuckistan wrote: |
I'm not worried about the US electorate, I'm worried about those voting machines that keep NO back-up record of the votes cast, so if there are glitches or tampering there will be no way to prove how the votes really went. A lot of people don't understand the problems and dangers associated with those types of voting machines.
One of many articles about the security probs of Diebold machines:
http://www.freedom-to-tinker.com/?p=1064 |
good point, there has been a ton written about Diebolds Republican connections
Also there has been a huge movement afoot to disenfranchise people. Remember what Katherine Harris did in Fla? Its been going on all over the place. New laws regarding ids, proof of citizenship etc will make it much harder for minorities and the poor to vote. Its back to the days of literacy tests and poll taxes if we arent careful.
there was a great op-ed piece is Mondays NY Times about this |
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canuckistan
Mod Team
Joined: 17 Jun 2003
Location: Training future GS competitors.....
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| Posted: Tue Oct 31, 2006 1:02 am Post subject: |
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People should know what could easily happen with these 40,000 Diebold machines across the country that count approx 80% of the votes, and that few if any of the major security flaws have been fixed.
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=3491
| Quote: |
TRANSCRIPT FROM UNAIRED AUGUST 2006 INTERVIEW
Rev. DeForest Soaries, Former U.S. Elections Assistance Commission Chair
"I resigned, effective April 30th, 2005 after having served through the 2004 elections and concluding that neither the White House nor the Congress was really serious about election reform.
"Florida 2000, the whole world watched America express embarrassment over the status of the Election Assistance Administration and by November 2004, we had not only not made significant changes but in many ways, had made things worse through the passage of the Help America Vote Act.
"After Florida 2000, the politicians were all on the soap box promising the country that we would 'repair' the problem and the problem was much more than hanging chads and lever machines. For instance, the Help America Vote Act mandates that an electronic voting machine be in every precinct in the country and that mandate preceded the funding of research necessary to ensure that there is some prototype or standard for such machines. If every home were mandated to have a microwave without the prerequisite kinds of safety standards for microwaves, it would be considered scandalous. But we know more today about how to build a machine to take pictures of rocks on Mars than we know about how to build a machine to safeguard the American right to vote.
"There is no prototype. There are no standards. There is no scientific research that would guarantee any election district that there�s a machine that can be used to answer these very serious questions. And so, my sense is that the politicians in Washington have concluded that the system can�t be all that bad because, after all, it produced them. And as long as an elected official is an elected official, then whatever machine was used, whatever device was used to elect him or her, seems to be adequate. But there�s an erosion of voting rights implicit in our inability to trust the technology that we use and if we were another country being analyzed by America, we would conclude that this country is ripe for stealing elections and for fraud.
"What was ironic that was each of us accepted our appointments knowing that EAC had no statutory authority to regulate. But what we were told was that EAC would have sufficient money to do research. And while regulatory authority was not present, we felt that if we could do the proper research, no state would be caught dead using equipment that didn�t meet up to the standards that our research proved were acceptable standards. Well, in the absence of regulatory authority and in the absence of money to do the research, we were basically asked to make bricks without straw.
"Well, the states were forced to comply and they were asking us for guidance. We were ill-equipped to provide guidance. We didn�t begin our work until January 2004 and we spent the first three months of our work looking for office space. Here we were, the first federal commission, responsible for implementing federal law in the area of election administration and for the first three months we didn�t even have an address. And we physically had to walk around Washington DC looking for office space. This was a travesty. I was basically deceived by the leaders of the House, the Senate and the White House. And I decided that it just made more sense to spend my time watching my sons play basketball than to participate in this charade.
"While we�re spending a billion dollars a week in Iraq, we�re told at EAC, by both the White House and the Congress, here is how much we�re going to give you. You tell us what you�re going to do with it. They never asked us the question, what would it really take to lead election reform in this country. How much money should the country really spend not only on buying new equipment, but on doing the proper research before using that equipment and how much will it cost over the long haul to keep that equipment up to date and to repair such equipment. Those questions were not asked. So in my view, it was a just a charade that I would chose not to participate in.
"Most people who really know, like election officials. They pray on election day that the election is not close. Because if an election is not close, then the flaws are hidden. But it�s when you have this perfect storm of equipment failures like Florida and a close election where there�s a call for recounts and an inability to determine who won right away, that�s when the glaring issues emerge and when election officials begin biting their nails.
"Either EAC or some agency must have the capacity to hold the entire system, elections officials, public officials and the manufacturers of voting equipment accountable. Where there�s no accountability, then you�re open for fraud and for inefficiency. EAC has regulatory authority over the National Voting Rights Act but that�s a small piece of the voting process. Someone has got to be able to say, no one in America should use machine 'A' ever again. And if it�s not EAC, it�s got to be someone. Someone in America has got to hold America accountable for protecting the most fundamental right in a democracy and that is the right to vote."
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Just in case you were wondering about Diebold....here's a history on them including some key people and their fraud convictions/securities violations.....remember, this companys' machines record approx 80% of the vote in the US:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diebold_Election_Systems
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Jeff Dean, Senior Vice-President and Senior Programmer at Global Election Systems (GES), the company purchased by Diebold in 2002 which became Diebold Election Systems, was convicted of 23 counts of felony theft for planting back doors in software he created for ATMs using, according to court documents, a "high degree of sophistication" to evade detection over a period of two years.[1] In addition to Dean, GES employed a number of other convicted felons in senior positions, including a fraudulent securities trader and a drug trafficker.[2]
In December 2005, Diebold's CEO Wally O'Dell left the company following reports that the company was facing securities fraud litigation surrounding charges of insider trading.
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That's just the fraud stuff. Read on about the political campaigning, security flaws, and other dirt-bag moves.
....and somehow this company has managed to corner 80% of the votes cast in the U.S.
Still believe in democracy? |
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