Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Adventurer]

[Junior]

[quote="Adventurer"][quote="Junior"]

[Adventurer]

[quote="Junior"][quote="Adventurer"]

[Big_Bird]

I think Junior's point is: "If the Pallies are going to burn the women anyway, what's the problem with Israelis doing it?"

[Big_Bird]

Who Was Perpetrating the Terror?

The Women of Beit Hanoun

By ELIZA ERNSHIRE

Before dawn on Friday morning the Al Quds Radio station in Beit Hanoun, Gaza, called on the women of the city to stage a protest outside the mosque inside which 40 of their resistance fighters were trapped.

Twelve hours later an Israeli spokesman announced "The militants used women as human shields. This is a clear example of the use of innocent population for terror." This statement was duly swallowed by the western media, most of which have covered the present crisis and growing tragedy in Gaza as little as possible.

But what was the terror and what was the threat? Who was threatening and who was perpetrating the terror?

There have been three days of bloodshed in Gaza which followed an ominous build up of the Israeli military on the borders. We watched in horror and yet again failed to do anything until it was too late. Only now, after 43 Palestinians have been killed in the course of three days, is the international community calling on Israel to 'show restraint'.

Again, too late and too little.

When those in the position to force some restraint fail to act then it is left to desperate people to act in desperate ways. The women of Beit Hanoun acted in response to the radio call for help because the international community had not been bothered to mediate. Their men were under siege. Their brothers, husbands and sons were being killed and their mosque was being bulldozed to the ground.

Many did not have to think twice when they were called on to act. What were they risking? A life where missile attacks are a daily occurrence, where funerals to bury their relatives are a weekly event, where fresh water and proper food are dreams they hav long given up on.

For many of the women who left their homes at sunrise and walked for an hour or more to the scene of terror their only hope was that their actions might save some lives and the world might be woken up to the reality of their tragedy. Instead, their actions have been used to further vilify their loved ones who had spent a night holed up inside a house of worship that was being systematically bulldozed from outside. Walls were crushed and the ceiling caved in. The women outside were looking for one glimpse of their husbands and sons. The Israeli forces opened fire and women were among the dead.

A heartbreaking photo bears witness to the scene of carnage, published in West Bank newspapers and kept away from the rest of the world media: Women rushing for cover behind a wall. A lamp post covered with blood and a crumpled woman on the ground. Faces turned heavenward in disbelief and anguish.

'The Army was forced to open fire on the crowd because two militants were among the women.' The Israeli media announced. And instantly the action is excused.

...

Why can we not even give honor where honor is due?

Give some credibility to the bravery of the women of Beit Hanoun who dared the tanks and fire of the strongest military in the world for the love of their men!

http://www.counterpunch.org/ernshire11072006.html

[Meegook]

Adventurer appears to be the only poster using reason, logic, facts and experience regarding the topic.

Others seem to be affected by propaganda, misinformation, disinformation, prejudice, racism, bigotry, illogical 'thinking' and I use the term loosely, and because of their ignorant and red necky hardheaded not to be changed views have formed unreasonable irrational opinions that they refuse to be separated from despite the fact that their opinions reveal their ignorance and foolishness.

[Pligganease]

[Junior]

I think you need to be educated Adventurer. really, you have no clue. Of course the palestinian woman you happened to speak to didn't tell you her father beat her once a week for fun, or her husband married her only because he raped her etc. OF COURSE they don't tell an outsider, a stranger on the street all about their wretched existence. The simple act of telling you if overheard by a passer-by would mostly likely result in her death. A lot of murders aren't even reported or known to police. I really think you have no understanding of muslim society and how incredibly male-dominated it is in Palestine. The women are little more than animals. They can be killed at will for slight infractions, by any male in a bad mood. And nothing happens. NOTHING. It doesn't even get to the police. The police are almost totally innefective. There is little or no justice in this muslim society. yet people like Big bird advance the cause of this archaic "civilisation". I would really like for Big bird to marry a muslim man, maybe even live iwith him in Palestine. I'm sure after she's been whipped a few times for talking without permission, she'd stop posting her cr*p on here.

Oh Look, we have a current report from 2 days ago.

Palestinian Women Face Rising Violence, Report Says

By STEVEN ERLANGER
Published: November 6, 2006

JERUSALEM, Nov. 6 � Discriminatory laws, traditional practices and a severe shortage of emergency shelters combine to perpetuate violence against women by their family members and intimate partners in the Palestinian territories, according to a report to be issued on Tuesday by Human Rights Watch, a New York-based advocacy group.

The report, based on interviews over the last year with victims, police officers, social workers and officials of the Palestinian Authority, says that while there is �increasing recognition of the problem� of violence against women and girls, �little action has been taken to seriously address these abuses.�

In fact, the report says, �there is some evidence that the level of violence is getting worse, while the remedies available to the victims are being further eroded.�

The report acknowledges that there is a significant lack of comprehensive data on the scale of violence. Even so, studies and statistics compiled by the Palestinian Central Bureau of Statistics and by women�s groups, many of them aided from abroad, �record high levels of violence perpetrated by family members and intimate partners, aggravated during times of political violence,� the report states,

The offenses include domestic violence, rape, incest, child abuse and violent responses to so-called �honor crimes,� like adultery, that embarrass the clan, family or community.

The report says that laws left over from the days before the 1967 war when Jordan ruled the West Bank and Egypt administered Gaza fail to fully protect the rights of female victims, the report says.

For instance, it notes, the laws call for reduced penalties in cases where men kill or harm female relatives who have committed adultery; they allow only male relatives to file incest charges on behalf of minors; and they absolve rapists from criminal prosecution if they agree to marry their victims for three years.

Moreover, rape laws in the Palestinian territories distinguish between virgin and non-virgin victims. Husbands are allowed to divorce wives simply by saying so, while wives must obtain a judicial divorce, and can only initiate proceedings on the basis of inflicted harm.

The report also says that, given the traditions of male authority in Middle Eastern culture and the enclosed nature of the communities, it is difficult for a female victim to seek redress or help with any guarantee of privacy. Those who go public with complaints to the police or the courts sometimes put themselves in more danger from an embarrassed family or clan.
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/06/world/middleeast/06cnd-palestine.html?_r=1&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1162958680-1TxMn/7ZtkRPUy32yo563A&oref=slogin

[Junior]

Palestinian women victims of systemic violence, authorities fail to protect them
(AP)6 November 2006

RAMALLAH, West Bank - A new report paints an alarming picture of the abuse of women in the Palestinian territories, with police, courts and government agencies failing to treat violence such as rape and beatings as a crime.

The New York-based Human Rights Watch cited practices such as rape victims being forced to marry assailants and light sentences for men who kill female relatives suspected of adultery. It said families, tribal leaders and authorities, backed by tradition and discriminatory laws, often sacrifice victims� interests for family honor.�
www.khaleejtimes.com/.../middleeast/2006/November/middleeast_November104.xml&section=middleeast


A ground-breaking research project funded by the International Development Research Centre (IDRC) shows that violence against women is "rampant" in the Gaza Strip
www.idrc.ca/en/ev-5311-201-1-DO_TOPIC.html



Need any more? I will say again that extreme violence against women is normal, day to day, mostly ignored, and on a massive scale in Palestine, due to the male dominated society and values of muslim society.

[Big_Bird]

Perhaps if they weren't living under a brutal occupation, they might have more of a chance of developing into a better society. When you're just trying to get by, feed your family, and praying every day that your babies wont be blown to bits by Israeli missiles or sniper fire, it's hard to get on with the job of advancing human rights. Living under a destructive and brutal occupation for 40 years has hardly given their society a chance to catch up with the 21st century.

There are plenty of appalling examples of horrific domestic abuse here in the West. Spend a week tagging along with social welfare officers and you'll be shocked. Most women in my country are killed by men they've been in relationships with, often after years of horrific abuse. In general we kill many more of our own people than terrorists have ever managed (be they IRA or radical Islamistists or Nazis in WWII). Does this mean we have no right to live free from brutal occupation?

[Junior]

[quote="Big_Bird"]

[Big_Bird]

[ddeubel]

Big bird,

Your patience amazes me. I , long ago, posted much info. regarding domestic abuse and America. Junior prefers to close his mind to all those kinds of things and see his world in the monocolours he prefers. Don't waste your breath. Yes, a lot more women dying yearly in America than Iraq and per capita in America than Palestine, from domestic abuse. Prove, irrefutable and let's just leave Junior alone to suck on his thumb with his belief that some nations are righteous towards their women and others not.......

DD

[Adventurer]

[quote="Junior"]I think you need to be educated Adventurer.


Thank you for the hilarious joke. You are attempting to cover up for your blatant racism in which you stated that Palestinian men, wholesale, treat their wives like slaves. As far as the laws, the Palestinians are still under occupation, have no real government to speak of, and are constantly under seige. You also stated that Palestinian women do not speak to males unaccompanied by family.


If you stated, abuse is a serious matter that needs to be dealt with in the territories including the abuse of children whether male or female, then that is another matter. You didn't mention the abuse of male children? Is it only to bolster your idea of a women hating society? In Jordan, they were discussing the abuse of children, period, because it is something many in that kingdom wants to see addressed. According to a report, 23% of Palestinians have said they have been abused. This is a high number. Is it a majority? No, it is not. I am still waiting for evidence that the majority of Palestinian men treat their women as slaves, and that is a common practice to burn females, and you also stated that female infanticide is practiced, and it is common. Where is your proof of this?

[Big_Bird]