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South Korea blinks--Not a Single Thing Will Change
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bucheon bum



Joined: 16 Jan 2003

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

happeningthang wrote:
bucheon bum wrote:
I'd take the LA times over Roh personally.


To do what exactly? Know more about the situation, and what's best for SK, or to say something that more closely echoes your own opinion?


All of that. Do remember LA has the biggest Korean population outside Korea itself. I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if the editorial board of the LA Times has a Korean American on its staff, and that the LA Times is as informed as any other media source out there.

Well ok, I believe Roh knows more about the situation simply because he is President, but hell, what does that mean? President Bush knows a lot of what's going on in Iraq but I'd say ideas proposed by others are a lot more logical and better than anything he's come up with post-"Mission Accomplished."
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

happeningthang wrote:
BJWD wrote:

Roh is the #1 arseclown of world politics. He even looks like a clown.

Roh is the product of years of Nork propaganda that penetrated that society. What he believes, and what those people who voted for him believe, are 100% constructions of the NK propaganda machine.

And his government is literally filled with NK spies.


I've got to admit that I don't really follow SK politics and don't really get much input on Roh. A few adult classes like to tell me that Roh and Kim Dae Joong aren't that great, but then again I'm in GNP heartland Gangwon-do. Even so, the main issue these guys cite is usually to do with the economy, and they feel NK are doing fine as it is.

So BJWD I'm curious to know where you get the idea Noh was formed by NK propoganda, and that the current government is "filled with NK spies". Literally?

Claims like that evoke that 'conspiracy theory' air, don't they? Wouldn't it be better to simply say you disagree with the sunshine policy?


Roh leads a government infected by NK agents. From the time of their democracy movement being funded by the Norks till today.

Marmot and Nomad have discussed the issue.

And when I say that they are products of NK propaganda, I mean that the citizens of the South have accepted the racist/nationalist/wrong history of the NK as Truth and voted as such.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mods, can you move that last post to the joke thread?

Thank you so much.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mine?

Why?

Just a few months ago there was several newstories about this very topic.

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/29/n-korean-spy-case-starting-to-get-real-interesting/

http://www.rjkoehler.com/2006/10/27/nis-chief-offers-resignation/

Marmot has all the links.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Tue Nov 14, 2006 11:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Please don't slap happeningthang down for supporting Roh. We need someone on the board to defend that side in discussions. Only patchy did that, in recent memory. (And no, I'm not putting happeningthang in the same category as patchy.)
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happeningthang



Joined: 26 Apr 2003

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ya-ta Boy wrote:
Please don't slap happeningthang down for supporting Roh. We need someone on the board to defend that side in discussions. Only patchy did that, in recent memory. (And no, I'm not putting happeningthang in the same category as patchy.)


Cheers for the props there YT.

Just to clarify to all, I'm not defending Roh per se, as I'm not that well informed on what he does or doesn't do, but I will ask for proof if people want to make, on the face of it, outrageous claims.

The NK propaganda conspiracy, and spy lousy state of the government looks like it's falling into that category. Again I'm not all that certain of the facts, but looking at the links BJWD has proffered there's no basis to the claim that a) there are spies in Roh Mo Hyun's government, or b) that the south has been corrupted by NK propaganda.

The links are to stories from, how should I put this... um... right wing pundit, the Marmot. Now don't get me wrong. The guy's well informed and involved in dissecting Korean news... a lot more so than myself, but he's got a certain personal viewpoint that colours his assessments, shall we say?

Even so all he's doing is translating Korean news and the articles he puts up state that those two politically connected, accused spies belong to (for one) and did belong (for the other) to the DLP Democratic Labour Party. I thought Roh was leading the Uri Party. How does the case of two spies, from another political party, equate to Roh leading a government infected with spies?? Were those guys in government??? Doesn't look like it. Are they affiliated with Roh?? I guess not.


As for the propaganda addled masses of Jeolla, I'm still not seeing any attempt at an arguement, beyond a personal, emotional (damn commie, lefties) assessment. I can think of a few reasons that have little to do with NK propaganda for people wanting to choose someone like Roh.

Sorry BJWD, you're slipping into IGTG terrain here.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 4:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally, I think if the Bouffant One called up Noh and asked/told him to ground his air force and send all this military officers to Peru for the weekend, Noh would do it in a heartbeat and say, 'Thank you' at the end of the call. But that's just my personal assessment.
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Satori



Joined: 09 Dec 2005
Location: Above it all

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This thread quickly descended into appeals to authority. Rather than argue about who is most fit to decide Korea's best response, why not discuss ourselves what the best response would be.

I say sanctions. And help out with the ship searching operation too. Appeasement has done absolutely nothing. The threat from the North is minimal. They may be mad, but are not completely idiotic. In a war games senario, sure they get to hurt Seoul for a few hours, then they get the crap bombed out of thier country, the US moves in, ocuppies, and initiates regime change, then comes reunification under the power of the South. I think it would be worth it. Korea would be an awsomely strong power after it had recovered from the initial set backs of this process.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Appeals to authority? Camon. Have you read the thread at all? Just by posting links to another site doesn't constitute 'appeals to authority'.

When I say that Roh is a product of NK propaganda, I'm stating fact. All the crap that we hear in SK about their history of being exploited and invaded more than any other nation (which is wrong) and how the Korean blood must be pure and how the Yanks started the war and on and on is the product of NK propaganda.

The opinions of typical Koreans mirrors the rhetoric of Nork propaganda. Why is this like IGTG?

And about the spies. Every major newspaper in the ROK ran stories about this. The issue was dropped as soon as it touched members of the Uri party and her goons. Roh is a puppet of JKI, even though he may not know it. Everything he believes has been packaged and shoved up his arse by the North.
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:49 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Quote:
When I say that Roh is a product of NK propaganda, I'm stating fact.

Well, now brace yourself because it might be hard to get your head around this, but no you're not stating anything close to fact. You're stating an opinion. An opinion that, if you had applied it to the US, the UK, Canada, or any of the countries actually represented on this board would have already been singled out as silly.

When you have something remotely approximate to a fact you want to tell us is "a fact", then come back here and post with a relative link.

Otherwise, keep your facts to yourself. Or offer them as opinions.

MY OPINION: NK is far more likely to drop a bomb on Tokyo than Seoul. I believe this accounts for SK attitudes towards the North. They'd like to control the south moreso than reduce it to rubble.
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thepeel



Joined: 08 Aug 2004

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 12:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I should be more clear I guess.

I'm speaking mostly of the 386 generation, from whom Roh finds his only support. Their views are the product of NK agents posing as profs and activists during the struggle for democracy. That which they believe is the product of NK propaganda. This is fact. But, I can understand the objecting to me using the word "fact" so then I'll say instead that it is "my historically correct opinion". Ok?

The older generation is more sane and the current batch of uni students range from totally insane to almost sane. But the 386 generation is a product of North Korean racist and national-socialist propaganda. The Chaebol and Army keep Roh in line.
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Nowhere Man



Joined: 08 Feb 2004

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 1:07 pm    Post subject: ... Reply with quote

Quote:
That which they believe is the product of NK propaganda. This is fact.


No that's not a fact.

And until you understand what a fact is, it's not really worth discussing the topic with you.
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Wangja



Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan

PostPosted: Wed Nov 15, 2006 3:08 pm    Post subject: Re: ... Reply with quote

Nowhere Man wrote:
Quote:
When I say that Roh is a product of NK propaganda, I'm stating fact.

...

MY OPINION: NK is far more likely to drop a bomb on Tokyo than Seoul. I believe this accounts for SK attitudes towards the North. They'd like to control the south moreso than reduce it to rubble.


Agreed.

You could now be complimented by being called a stupid person.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Thang,

You have your work cut out for you if you are going to defend the Prez:

Quote:
Roh has seen his popularity continue to drop since April, when he had an approval rating of 31 percent.

The approval rating for Roh�s governing Uri Party has fallen to a record 13.6 percent for policy failures, while the main opposition Grand National Party (GNP) enjoyed a 40-percent approval rating, up 4.6 percentage points from the previous survey on Oct. 24, the poll said.

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Hollywoodaction



Joined: 02 Jul 2004

PostPosted: Thu Nov 16, 2006 9:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BJWD wrote:
happeningthang wrote:
BJWD wrote:

Roh is the #1 arseclown of world politics. He even looks like a clown.

Roh is the product of years of Nork propaganda that penetrated that society. What he believes, and what those people who voted for him believe, are 100% constructions of the NK propaganda machine.

And his government is literally filled with NK spies.


I've got to admit that I don't really follow SK politics and don't really get much input on Roh. A few adult classes like to tell me that Roh and Kim Dae Joong aren't that great, but then again I'm in GNP heartland Gangwon-do. Even so, the main issue these guys cite is usually to do with the economy, and they feel NK are doing fine as it is.

So BJWD I'm curious to know where you get the idea Noh was formed by NK propoganda, and that the current government is "filled with NK spies". Literally?

Claims like that evoke that 'conspiracy theory' air, don't they? Wouldn't it be better to simply say you disagree with the sunshine policy?


Roh leads a government infected by NK agents. From the time of their democracy movement being funded by the Norks till today.

Marmot and Nomad have discussed the issue.

And when I say that they are products of NK propaganda, I mean that the citizens of the South have accepted the racist/nationalist/wrong history of the NK as Truth and voted as such.


Nah, Noh just lacks formal education.
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