Korean Job Discussion Forums

[SPINOZA]

Did you support the invasion of Iraq in 2003, Lastat?

In any case, the view that we should pull out of Iraq is indefensible. But it irritates the shit out of me to see the same people who supported this war now argue that we should pull out because the war has gone exactly the way those opposed to it predicted. That's why I ask.

My problem with Iraq

[poet13]

SPIN. A lot of people have changed their support of the war precisely because they feel that the administration fabricated the evidence they needed to create support for it.

Honestly, I think GW needed his war just like his daddy had his war. I think the elder did it right though. Yup, they stopped short of baghdad, truend around and went home. They made mission and stopped.

[bjonothan]

What I think that most of you are forgetting is that Muslims remain a threat to our societies. They take the piss out of our free speech to talk about how they want to implement their own laws that say that women should be covered and should not be able to go to school. Look at the middle east people! It is a $hithole! And our values directly contradict theirs. The top muslim cleric in Australia said recently that women are like pieces of meat. When you don't cover the meat, the cats eat it. This was drawing a reference to women not covering themselves and then being raped. First of all, I hope we kick scumbags out for thinking like that. Free speach means that you can say what you like, but there still has to be a line. I can't go out and say that I want to kill everyone and expect that it will be ok. Second that is the mentality that if we don't accept, we are being complained about. The middle east is that sort of $hit, but on a much bigger scale. This war which was not properly managed by bush from the start, is about keeping a lid on the extremists and giving people who are usually opressed a chance. The whole American foreign policy is based around stopping things before they happen, and when you get a rising body count you want to pull out? All that does, is tell them that they did a good job and make them recruit more people to do things closer to home. In world war two, had the US gotten involved earlier, lives would have been saved. Now we are fighting a different war against people far worse than the kamikaze pilots of Japan or the Nazi soldiers from Germany. These people use any tactic they can to win. Including the bombing of innocent women and children as a means to be heard. In Palestine, they shoot from behind women and children all the time. And then their media claims that the Israeli army targetted them. Israel ladies and gentlemen is an actual good model of what we are looking at if we don't start now. I hope people can read a bit more about the islamic faith and wonder why so many people that call themselves muslims are killing people all over the world right now. Whether it be Thailand, the philippines, the middle east e.t.c. A coincidence? If the western world doesn't unite on this one, we will have a lot more deaths later on as well. War is not something that people want, but wars prevent things being even worse. I hope that Bush presses ahead and keeps killing as many muslim extremists as he can until the next president is elected......

[poet13]

Do you realize that most of the countries in which the US has had a military conflict were countries that the US installed a new regime and supplied arms too?

Think about the Middle East, Central America, and Africa.

Ths US has a long history of sticking their hands in someone else pie, adding ingredients, and then later on going back and removing the ingredient.

Do you think it's kind of ironic that the US supplies a weapons poor country with arms, and then gets involved in a conflict where Americans are killed by those same arms?

[bjonothan]

I find it hard to see how this is real relevant to why the US should keep fighting insurgents or not. The US made foreign policy mistakes. Most countries do. Can you come up with something a bit more interesting? Yeah the stinger missiles that the US supplied against the soviet invasion are now being shot at US planes too. Your point?

[poet13]

You're arguing cause and effect. Which came first? Insurgents or the US? Maybe if the US wasn't so intent on meddling in the affairs of countries and cultures halfway around the world, things would be different.

I thought I made three interesting points. I thought your post was poorly disguised hate, starting with the generalization that muslims are a threat to our society....

[huffdaddy]

[RACETRAITOR]

By the way, doesn't having a purple heart mean nothing now? John Carrey had two, and everyone called him a coward for it last election.

[lastat06513]

First of all, just because I am stating an anti-war thread, it doesn't mean I'm going to side with the muslims, insurgents or even the taliban on this issue.

But I also feel the world is hypocritical at this stage of international affairs.

~ Russia is battling islamists for the control of the lower caucuses, yet they are against the US in the UN when it comes to punishing Iran for its nuclear program. Mostly because it would stop a $1 trillion nuclear reactor deal.

~ The same goes with China, who is battling the Ughur minority in Xinjiang, but yet is threatening veto of any resolution that pertains condemning Iran/Syria/ Hezb'allah for any wrongdoing because any such attempt would deny China its much needed oil for its booming economy and because they want to be seen as a counter to US superiority.

~ France and Germany were deeply against the war, not because they thought it was morally wrong, but the victory by the US would expose the extent those 2 nations gave to the Iraqi warmachine as Saddam spent billions on equipment and technical expertise from those 2 countries (there were still French and German technicians in Iraq right up until the bombs dropped in Baghdad)

~ And the reason Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, and Afghanistan doesn't put too much effort in fighting those fighters in their countries is because they think the fight as being more a Westerner's concern and that by fighting fellow muslims, they are seen as "following the Crusaders".

I think the true problem lies in the region and it should be bombed......[j/k]

A purple heart would mean more as a medal if it was given for the right reasons and not as a way to pad some soldiers records for promotion, I have seen that and it makes me sick!!!

[poet13]

Not sure which side you're taking, but I am definitely not calling him or anyone else who fought for the US a coward. My issue is with the CIC and the inner circle. People like Cheney and Rumsfeld.

It seems to me that in the past few years, the Executive Office has assumed a great deal of powers. Things that only a decade ago people assumed were sacrosanct. Since 9/11, and the creation of the homeland security department, the government has authorized thousands upon thousands of wiretaps without court order. People can be detained without charges. Bank records, email communications, the privacy of all of those things that Americans believed they had a right to has been taken away.

Where does it stop? When does congress, the senate, or the supreme court put their foot down and say, no, you cannot just assume powers and dispense with the system of checks and balances it took 250 years to put in place?

Maybe when it's too late.

(edit. added and S to "check")

[antoniothegreat]

[poet13]

"~ France and Germany were deeply against the war, not because they thought it was morally wrong, but the victory by the US would expose the extent those 2 nations gave to the Iraqi warmachine as Saddam spent billions on equipment and technical expertise from those 2 countries (there were still French and German technicians in Iraq right up until the bombs dropped in Baghdad) "

Don't forget the Americans started it in Iraq in the 80's to counter Iran...

[antoniothegreat]

[antoniothegreat]

[antoniothegreat]