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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyong Bluth wrote: |
Call me crazy, but I remained unconvinced. As valuable as ribbed swimsuits and golf balls with improved aerodynamics are, I can't help but think what could be accomplished by social programs if they had the resources currently devoted to high-tech star gazing.
We should feed everybody on this planet before we go exploring others. Seems like a pretty simple concept to me. |
There's an actual dollar value to all the spinoffs created: generally each dollar spent on the space program created eight dollars in benefits. For a more concrete example:
Poor country A has a problem with malaria and a small mosquito extermination budget. There's no way it's going to be able to spray the whole country. However, using satellite data from probes observing the Earth it's able to see the exact areas where large rain systems occur and order targeted extermination be done in these areas where before it was just spraying blind. Thousands less contract malaria every year.
http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/Spinoff2005/er_6.html
Space development is an investment. NASA also does all this on a budget of only $16 billion a year. The Iraq War for comparison has cost $360 billion so far. NASA is pennies compared to just about every other part of the budget as well. |
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jeffkim1972
Joined: 10 Jan 2007 Location: Mokpo
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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First of all, there are other departments that deal with feeding peoplel namely unemployment benefits and welfare.
Now when do you ever hear about those departments running out of funds?
Now, you don't want to make the benefit amounts more than what a minimum wage job would pay, because that would discourage working, although there was a study and in some states, you can make more money being on welfare than working minimum wage.
The other aspect of all this research money is that some percentage, 30% (don't know the exact number) must be outsourced to smaller businesses. I'm talking business as small as one man machine shops. Met a man during my college days that owned a machine shop and he participated in making a small component of one of the robotic arms for the space shuttle because of this exact reason.
When you hear about India launching it's own TV satellite with it's homemade launcher, don't think more viewing channels, they now have ICBMs.
When the NOAA creates a topology map of the all the ocean floors, think submarine warefare.
Had a discussion with an Environmental researcher at a US University and why are people permanantly stationed in Antarcica? It's not to research seals and take climate data, it's part of the geo-military strategy.
The government is helping to feed people. Without these programs many engineers and scientists would starve, it would be utter tragedy.
Much of this money also goes to universities in the form of research grants, which help pay for graduate students.
SBIR programs (the military also has these programs) help spread the funds to smaller companies.
I think it's also a matter of perception. The public hears about some of these nice spinoffs from the research, but in reality most of the results are not disclosed because they shouldn't be and because of the results are too esoteric. Do you really want to have a newspaper story about every improvement in a mathematical algorithm? There's more going on in these scientific journals than all the newspapers, magazines, news programs combined. |
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venus
Joined: 25 Oct 2006 Location: Near Seoul
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Posted: Sun Mar 04, 2007 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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Don't see how budget would be an issue, really.
Anyone on this board can hover above me for an hour for 200,000 Won.
You'd need, like, your own pair of hover boots or whatever... Or we could contrive some sort of hammock or pulley and lever system I guess. I'd lay on the floor (on a comfortable mattress) and you'd be above me a few feet.
I live in Gyeongi-do and you'd have to provide your own transport.
Can't see why you'd want to bother, but hey, I don't do much on sundays, so why the heck not..? I have a good dvd collection, so whilst you're hovering you could watch a movie if you're not too busy recording your 'findings' on a notepad or something.
I don't really see what NASA has to do with any of it though, but like I said, I don't really understand much about this sort of thing.
Well, you can pm me if interested.
Nice one.
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Anyong Bluth

Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Location: Robbers' Roost
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:12 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, well, the budget of NASA is, what, say $16.8 Billion give or take? Here's what we spend on other programs.
As an American taxpayer, I don't feel like I'm getting my money's worth. I'd like to see that $16.8 put to better use. |
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Anyong Bluth

Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Location: Robbers' Roost
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| jeffkim1972 wrote: |
First of all, there are other departments that deal with feeding peoplel namely unemployment benefits and welfare.
Now when do you ever hear about those departments running out of funds? |
You're fucking kidding me, right? The response to Katrina was well-funded in your mind then, I take it? Nothin else could have been done down there with an extra $16.8 billion? |
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NAVFC
Joined: 10 May 2006
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hate to burst your buble Mith, but they are right. Living 50 km above venus would be an idiotic thing to do. Imaigne for a moment what ever keeps said city floating above venus malfunmctions, the city will fall into venus's atmosphere, where its hot and toxic. Death results. Youd be asking for trouble.
And to ever said NASA is a big waste of money your a fool.
The Earth isn't going to be around firever. Whether its a black hole, Meteor, nuclear war, what evr, the world WILL END.
and when it does the human race will neeed a new home. |
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mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003 Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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Posted: Wed Mar 07, 2007 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
| Hate to burst your buble Mith, but they are right. Living 50 km above venus would be an idiotic thing to do. Imaigne for a moment what ever keeps said city floating above venus malfunmctions, the city will fall into venus's atmosphere, where its hot and toxic. Death results. Youd be asking for trouble. |
Imagine for a moment whatever is keeping the International Space Station pressurized malfunctions, the station will...
Imagine for a moment whatever is keeping the moon base pressurized malfunctions, the base will...
Imagine for a moment whatever is keeping the Mars base pressurized malfunctions, the base will...
Imagine for a moment whatever is keeping the rocket on a straight trajectory malfunctions, the rocket will...
How is Venus any different from the above situations? If you are arguing against space travel itself that's fine, but if you are going to make the claim that somehow Venus is more dangerous than other proposed destinations such as the moon or Mars, you're going to have to show why.
| Quote: |
At cloud-top level, Venus is the paradise planet. As shown in figure 2, at an altitude slightly
above fifty km above the surface, the atmospheric pressure is equal to the Earth surface atmospheric pressure of 1
Bar. At this level, the environment of Venus is benign.
� above the clouds, there is abundant solar energy
� temperature is in the habitable "liquid water" range of 0-50C
� atmosphere contains the primary volatile elements required for life (Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen,
and Sulfur)
� Gravity is 90% of the gravity at the surface of Earth.
While the atmosphere contains droplets of sulfuric acid, technology to avoid acid corrosion are well known, and
have been used by chemists for centuries.
In short, the atmosphere of Venus is most earthlike environment in the solar system. Although humans cannot
breathe the atmosphere, pressure vessels are not required to maintain one atmosphere of habitat pressure, and
pressure suits are not required for humans outside the habitat.
It is proposed here that in the near term, human exploration of Venus could take place from aerostat vehicles in the
atmosphere, and that in the long term, permanent settlements could be made in the form of cities designed to float at
about fifty kilometer altitude in the atmosphere of Venus.
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Adding to that the much more frequent launch windows from Earth to Venus compared to Mars (synodic period of 583.92 days compared to 779.96 days for Mars), protection from solar radiation from the atmosphere (something Mars doesn't provide), it's clear that Venus should be the destination we choose after the moon. The moon doesn't have a great many benefits compared to the two planets mentioned, but it's just so close that we can't pass it up as the first destination.
Map of the inner solar system:
You'll notice that Mars is much further out and harder to get to whereas Venus is right next door. Withstanding the radiation on the proposed six-month trip to Mars hasn't been worked out yet either. |
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Anyong Bluth

Joined: 22 Jun 2006 Location: Robbers' Roost
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Posted: Thu Mar 08, 2007 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| NAVFC wrote: |
And to ever said NASA is a big waste of money your a fool.
The Earth isn't going to be around firever. Whether its a black hole, Meteor, nuclear war, what evr, the world WILL END.
and when it does the human race will neeed a new home. |
I'd be careful chucking around those "fool" rocks, champ. With your spelling, grammar, and apostrophe use they seem to be landing in rather close proximity to your glass house. |
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