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desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
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 Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 2:00 am Post subject: |
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Its easy to be dismissive. But I think that we are talking about a phenomenon that not only involves our superiors, but our colleagues, Korean friends, etc. What gossip is to the American office, secrecy is here. I think that it has much to do with maintaining "harmony" at all costs, and runs counter to our U.S. "take charge and deal with things" mentality. You know, that sickening buzzword, "pro-active."
I find myself in that bind at times, and, no, I am not entirely convinced that my stance is superior. Its hard to adjust to, for me, but I am trying. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:04 am Post subject: |
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I don't speak for anyone else, but in my case I think it's disgusting and EXREMELY unproffessional to be dissmissed without stating why. I'm sure it's illegal in my country. It could very well have been a misunderstanding, and maybe I could have cleared it up. There are a few workplace concepts I believe should be adopted from the west, not because we are superior, but because these things really work for ALL concerned, and ultimately lead to better productivity.
Transparency
Accountability
Conciliation |
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sid
Joined: 02 Feb 2003
Location: Berkshire, England
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| TheWesternShoreKid wrote: |
| I recommend the book..."Korea Unmasked." It provides alot of answers regarding Korean society. |
I'm reading this at the moment and it is pretty good. The best bits de-construct the Korean mentality quite neatly, at other times you will raise a sceptical eyebrow as the author seems to re-affirm national self-image rather less critically.
A bargain at 9000 won anyway. |
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whatthefunk
Joined: 21 Apr 2003
Location: Dont have a clue
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
I don't speak for anyone else, but in my case I think it's disgusting and EXREMELY unproffessional to be dissmissed without stating why. I'm sure it's illegal in my country. It could very well have been a misunderstanding, and maybe I could have cleared it up. There are a few workplace concepts I believe should be adopted from the west, not because we are superior, but because these things really work for ALL concerned, and ultimately lead to better productivity.
Transparency
Accountability
Conciliation |
Don't forget communication. This one bothers me the most. It would be so nice if, in a meeting, we actually talked instead of having the boss yell at us for an hour. It would be much more productive as well considering that the boss doesn't teach english. |
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Son Deureo!
Joined: 30 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:27 am Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| I don't speak for anyone else, but in my case I think it's disgusting and EXREMELY unproffessional to be dissmissed without stating why. I'm sure it's illegal in my country. |
I don't know anything about New Zealand labor law, but I can tell you that this would not be illegal in most states in the United States. Unless you have special protection of some sort (e.g. civil service, union contract, or other employment), most employees are considered to be "at will" employees. This means that either side can end the working relationship for any reason, or no reason at all.
In Korea, because I have a contract that specifies the terms under which I can be dismissed I actually have more protection, on paper, than the average American worker.
Having said all that, I do sympathize. It does suck to be fired without knowing why, and it is common courtesy on the employer's part. It's hard to avoid making a mistake the second time around if you don't even know what it was.
Going back on topic, I've also been frustrated by being left out of the loop as the foreign teacher. It was one of my first impressions of this country. On the second day of my first contract I asked the academic supervisor of my school to help me with finding a few things (power converter and the like). She said she'd help me, and tell me where I could find them the next day if she could. I didn't see her the next day, and when I asked the Korean teachers and the other foreign teacher told me that sometimes she was away in meetings and whatnot.
It took 4 days before anyone bothered to tell me that the day I had talked to her was her last day on the job. She had quit that day. When I asked the other foreign teacher why no one bothered to tell me that my immediate supervisor was no longer working there, he said "That information was on a need to know basis."  |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 4:33 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| "That information was on a need to know basis." |
Way to build a unified and motivated company! |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 5:28 am Post subject: |
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The whole over-secrecy thing can lead to a state of mind in the average waegook ESL teacher, that I call "Savage paranoid torpor". In the latter stages of this mental condition, the teacher is afraid everytime his/her boss approaches for a chat, because they don't know what earth- shattering news the boss is about to unleash.
When my boss comes over for a talk, I'm there thinking what now...whats next? Is he about to tell me the schools closing tomorrow? or maybe he's going to announce he's sold me to the North Koreans? Or we all have to work a 15 hour shift? Who knows what surprise is next?????Its a kind of torture... |
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captain kirk
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 6:58 am Post subject: |
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| 'savage paranoid torpor'. i was going to say, re; being fired without warning or reason, does a feudal lord need explain to the guy toiling with a hoe, now scratching his head, 'huh?'. with this immigration stipulation re; a one year contract, the boss had complete control. at month five and i've noticed myself 'sensitized to the nuances of the prince' in a state of 'savage paranoid torpor'. and the boss can see this and has a chuckle inside. it's bizarre. after awhile i naturally get to resenting this guy who could dismiss me on a whim and playing with making spooky faces, so i've quit being alert as a dog at dinnertime so much. he doesn't like that: 'have i gone too far?' (paranoia again). teachers 'run' the school, i like to believe. |
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Guest
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:09 am Post subject: |
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along similar lines but on the organisational side:::
i've given up on been informed advance about things....i had to ask 20 questions before finally getting some kind of answer--and even then, it was kind of a hazy, 'things may change'..
was told the last week of august was the best time to take a vacation...so i casually reminded the boss today, not thinking it would be a problem at all, about taking 5 days next week, and suddenly its a problem...and the school is too busy then...say what?
i've learned my lesson, now i'm gonna get a signature to confirm things like that....been here a short while---and this was the my first reality-check about hagwons.. |
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Dan
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Sunny Glendale, CA
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:10 am Post subject: |
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The best thing is to get buddy buddy with someone who has the inside track.
Koreans gossip about everything, but you just have to get in good with someone who is willing to share |
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Arthur Fonzerelli
Joined: 22 Jan 2003
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:12 am Post subject: Re: Koreans: Why the unneccesary secrecy???!!! |
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| rapier wrote: |
Have you noticed that Koreans are probably the most secretive people on the planet? I don't pretend to fathom their logic or reasons, but they will consistently keep everyone else in the dark about the most trivial of things..
For example: I've known my Boss for around a year now. One of the women teachers bears the same surname (Park). She has always referred to the boss as "Mr. park" or "wonjangnim". After 6 months I found out from someone else she is actually his daughter (Ssshhh, its a secret). the facade went on for ages until i finally let on that I knew she was his daughter. She was annoyed that I found out. Now, I finally discover that another teacher is in fact her sister (up til now she has kept up the facade that they were no more than best friends). DUHH!! why would this be such a state secret? |
maybe everyone knew and thought it was so obvious that no one felt the need to say anything? maybe you weren't sharp enough to pick it up like everyone else?? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:26 am Post subject: |
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| rapier wrote: |
The whole over-secrecy thing can lead to a state of mind in the average waegook ESL teacher, that I call "Savage paranoid torpor". In the latter stages of this mental condition, the teacher is afraid everytime his/her boss approaches for a chat, because they don't know what earth- shattering news the boss is about to unleash.
When my boss comes over for a talk, I'm there thinking what now...whats next? Is he about to tell me the schools closing tomorrow? or maybe he's going to announce he's sold me to the North Koreans? Or we all have to work a 15 hour shift? Who knows what surprise is next?????Its a kind of torture... |
Yup, that's exactly what it's like with me now. Even though my boss has yet to come to me with any bad news, I'm still a bit paranoid, given the business and all.
At my last hogwon, I had the "informant" that Dan refered to, so wasn't as bad. |
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crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 8:02 am Post subject: |
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Yeah the whole lack of information drives me insane. I maybe moving in a few weeks but I haven't heard anything. I'm not going to press it as I love my pad. But I don't know.
I have a couple of informants at one school. But I prefer to not know on some things ignorance is bliss.
CLG |
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sakamuras
Joined: 21 Jun 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 3:19 pm Post subject: |
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umm...have you people EVER worked in corporate america or canada? same *beep*. have you ever heard of office politics? office gossip? never heard of people getting pink-slips without notice? remember what happend to dot-coms? geez...were all you people born yesterday????
oh wait, many of you never had "real" jobs before coming to korea...my bad. consider this your first experience then. don't think it's a korea-only thing. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 20, 2003 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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sak, sometimes I wonder what world you live in.
yes, some of us have worked in the corporate world back home. Sure there was office gossip but nothing like the crap that goes on in a hogwon here. And since at a corporate job back in the states, you speak the language of everyone else, its pretty easy to keep up with information. Not so easy here.
Furthermore, your avg. jack white-collar man isn't having housing provided by his employer. Things like, "oh you have to move tomorrow" just can't happen.
Sak, the question is: have YOU ever worked for a Korean company?  . Well hogwon at least. Might give you some perspective on things. |
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