Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Gopher]

[vanland]

In the past, due to poor care, Down Syndrome people didn't live as long as other people, but now, with modern technology and good schemes, services and facilities, they are living much longer. The age is rising, even well above 60 now.

An important question with Down Syndrome is 'why abort them'? They are not sick people. They are not immobile. They don't have some physical ailment that will leave them in pain throughout life. In my experience, it does't get much worse than some people who might poke fun at them.

Are they aborted for convenience? Aborting them for their own sake doesn't stand up in a modern western nation these days. As noted in my previous post. They can live quite a good quality of life.

[Milwaukiedave]

How early can they test of Down's Syndrome? The problem now is that if a family choses to abort the baby, they would pretty much have to have it before the 6th month.

Even then, it sounds like there is a campaign by people of strong religous faith and those who advocate for DS children to take parents into having the child no matter how bad the disability is.

I agree it's a slippery slope, but IF my wife was pregant and IF the child was diagnosed with DS I would rather not have the child.

The other question is, how long will it be before it's not our choice anymore?

[jinju]

Yes, maybe people with DS can lead MORE normal lives, the fact is that they will never be able to lead normal lives and that most likely they will not be able to attain full independence. And in my case I would not want to be saddled with that kind of a burden for the rest of my life nor would I want to condemn a kid to a such a life either.

[mindmetoo]

[Yo!Chingo]

If you look at the issue and ask if those afflicted with Down Syndrome are good people and can contribute something positive to society as a whole, most people would say the answer is yes. They can definitely be a positive influence to those around them. It's like always being able to look through the innocent eyes of a child. That's a good thing.

I personally recognize that individuals with Down Syndrome can contribute to the enjoyment of life. As for me taking on the financial and emotional responsibilily of a Down Syndrome child. No way. That doesn't make me less of a person; it just means that if I can eliminate the issue b/f it is an issue I'm gonna do it. The same goes if there was a test for a serial killer gene or a serious addictive personality gene. I would chose not to have to deal with that and I think society as a whole would be better if we could just get rid of these things period. I also wouldn't carry the child to term and pass it onto the State or some unsuspecting adoptive parent to have to deal with either.

As more and more people populate the Earth our resources are getting more and more scarce. At some point survival of the fittest may come into play here. Someday it may be compulsory to abort "undesirable" fetuses so that resources are better preserved and used on the "desirable". Whatever "desirable" or "undesirable" is termed to be at that point in our evolution.

[Gopher]

[Milwaukiedave]

My access to Wikipedia is sketchy at best here at work (they've also banned YouTube...so much for my favorite two sites). I was able to use a proxy to look at the article. The page I can read from the proxy is strange at best, but here it is.

Here are the tests and when they can be done for Downs Syndrome:

Table 1: Common first and second trimester Down syndrome screens Screen When performed (weeks gestation) Detection rate False positive rate Description
Triple screen 15�20 75% 8.5% This test measures the maternal serum alpha feto protein (a fetal liver protein), estriol (a pregnancy hormone), and human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG, a pregnancy hormone).[16]
Quad screen 15�20 79% 7.5% This test measures the maternal serum alpha feto protein (a fetal liver protein), estriol (a pregnancy hormone), human chorionic gonadotropin (hCG, a pregnancy hormone), and high inhibin-Alpha (INHA).[16]
AFP/free beta screen 13�22 80% 2.8% This test measures the alpha feto protein, produced by the fetus, and free beta hCG, produced by the placenta.
Nuchal translucency/free beta/PAPPA screen 10�13.5 91%[17] 5%[17] Uses ultrasound to measure Nuchal Translucency in addition to the freeBeta hCG and PAPPA (pregnancy-associate plasma protein A, Mendelian Inheritance in Man (OMIM) 176385). NIH has confirmed that this first trimester test is more accurate than second trimester screening methods.[18]

[Big_Bird]

[Big_Bird]

For me it would also depend on what kind of society I lived in. If I lived somewhere like Scandanavia, where they have great social services, I might feel less uneasy about the fate of my child after I was deceased. I'd also feel less anxious knowing I'd receive some assistance with regards to my child. However, if I lived somewhere that was less concerned with social welfare, I'd be less inclined to go ahead with it.

[Alyallen]

[mindmetoo]

[cosmicgirlie]

I'm not sure I'd abort if the child was diagnosed with Downs.....it's a managable disability. In so far that if I was to choose to have the child with Downs I'd have to stay in Canada or other "western" nations. I wouldn't have the child if I was to live in other countries however. The support system for the family isn't there. I see nothing wrong with having a child with Downs--their quality of life isn't too bad in the sense that generally speaking they're pretty happy go lucky people as long as the family is willing to work with them.

Now for other genetic disorders I would consider abortion. Spinabiffida being one of them. Even the most severe Downs child is workable but a child with severe spinabifida doesn't have the same quality of life. There are other degenerate disorders I'd consider when it came to abortion.

If I was to become pregnant again I'd have testing done as early as possible. When I first became prego back in 1997 I thought about getting the test for Spina but opted out. I'm pretty lucky to have a well rounded and bright 9 year old daughter. As I age though, and consider having another with my new partner I run the risk of increased likelyhood of an at risk pregnancy. It's a moral dilema that if or when the time comes I will have to think long and hard about. A Downs child no abortion, a spinabiffida child I would abort.

This coming from a woman's perspective.

[mindmetoo]

Gopher, what about this hypothetical situation:

You have reservations about terminating a pregnancy if genetic testing indicates a high probability of a mentally retarded child. You have no problem with in vitro surgery to correct such. Now what if it were possible to scan all the eggs in a woman's ovaries and delete the ones, if fertilized, likely to produce a retarded child. Any problems there?

[crusher_of_heads]