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| Would you have your daughter vaccinated? |
| Yes |
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66% |
[ 8 ] |
| No |
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33% |
[ 4 ] |
| Undecided |
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0% |
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| Total Votes : 12 |
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Message |
Hater Depot
Joined: 29 Mar 2005
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 Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| There is also emerging evidence that boys should be vaccinated to prevent throat cancer (yes you can make a joke here). |
It would protect girls as well, according to the one study done on the subject. The results have to be repeated, but if true, going down on a few people increases your risk of throat cancer more than would smoking. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Thats fine except I refuse to be forced to take anything I dont want. Screw "pubic good", my body, my choice. |
That's fine as long as you want to home school your children. The issue with vaccines is not vaccinating the adult population but vaccinating children before we let them into the public school system. No one forces an adult, for example, to get his/her booster shots. |
But a valid point can be made that cervical cancer has nothing to do with school since it is not a disease that can be transmitted through normal everyday interactions such as coughing or sneezing.... |
I agree 100%. Previous I was making the argument that diseases spread via normal human contact (not a life style choice) should require vaccination if you want to put your kids in public school. It's behooves society if we pay for the HPV virus but since it's technically life style choice I don't think it should be required. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 1:20 am Post subject: |
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Yeah....
It is an interesting topic.
I think I agree with Jinju in that it should be free but not mandatory...
I have a 12 year old sister and I'm SO tempted to bring it up to my parents....I think that in world of Breast and lung cancer, hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, and countless other things...I'd definitely would want to scratch one potential killer off the list.....
I just don't see the argument of cervical cancer vaccine  raving sluttress
I guess they can just pray they don't have to bury their daughter over a now fairly preventable disease.... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 5:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| jinju wrote: |
| Im with the religious groups though not for their idiotic reasons. My reasoning is simple: Im against mandatory almost anything. It should be a choice and it should be free, but not mandatory. |
Vaccines for diseases that can be spread by non-lifestyle interaction should be mandatory, unless you decide public school is a lifestyle choice. Vaccines only work when very large % of the population get it. If people start opting out for non-rational reasons, diseases spread. |
Word.
Pro Vaccine = Pro life
Against the Vaccine = Pro Cancer (in effect)
Those law makers who oppose the vaccine are nothing short of criminals. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| How about chemical castration for the under 20's, that will cut teen sex |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| How about chemical castration for the under 20's, that will cut teen sex |
Or chemical castration for chronic cheaters....
That's hardly the same thing and you know it...
Being intentionally obtuse won't win you points in this discussion, I think... |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 8:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| ED209 wrote: |
| How about chemical castration for the under 20's, that will cut teen sex |
Or chemical castration for chronic cheaters....
That's hardly the same thing and you know it...
Being intentionally obtuse won't win you points in this discussion, I think... |
Well there ain't no vaccine for that.
What I do pick up on is this being a matter of choice. We are now a society that questions doctors and the medical companies rather than simply believing they know what they are talking about.
In the UK many parents opted out of the triple MMR vaccine over fears (unproven ones) that the jab was linked to autism. With the mistrust over modern drug companies no one wants to put unknown drugs into their child's body despite the risks. As a result of the fears in the UK there was a rise in measles, mumps and rubella.
I don't know how much fear is being caused by the religious community but it is their MO. Maybe when the politicians and religious leaders daughters' hair starts falling out due to chemotherapy there will be changes. When it attacks their kin it is no longer a just punishment from god but a horrid disease worthy of millions in investment.
But back to my main point, which I think was about choice, we no longer take orders from the doc. We are the customer and we will decide. Or the magazines that housewives buy will decide, or Oprah will decide, but not the doctors, they eat babies. |
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Woland
Joined: 10 May 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:01 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
Yeah....
It is an interesting topic.
I think I agree with Jinju in that it should be free but not mandatory...
I have a 12 year old sister and I'm SO tempted to bring it up to my parents....I think that in world of Breast and lung cancer, hypertension, heart disease, diabetes, and countless other things...I'd definitely would want to scratch one potential killer off the list.....
I just don't see the argument of cervical cancer vaccine raving sluttress
I guess they can just pray they don't have to bury their daughter over a now fairly preventable disease.... |
Katha Pollitt has referred to the refusal to have young females vaccinated against HPV as "honor killing on the installment plan." You won't see that phrase in this recent column by her on this issue:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050530/pollitt
but it covers most of what is being said here about the fear and sexual repression that drive this stuff.
My younger brother has become a fundy, and is refusing to have his twelve year old vaccinated because of the message it will send her. I am so pissed - What message, idiot? Your mother and I don't care about your future health? If my mother were alive, healthcare professional that she was, she'd have his ass over this.
There is actually some evidence, weak, linking HPV to the occurrence of penile cancer in males. Penile cancer is rare, occurring mostly in men in their seventies. Not enough cases have occurred to make a strong link. I know about it, and this connection, because my father died of it. If that connection is strongly made, then, alyallen, I'll bet it'll become mandatory much more quickly. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:37 am Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| ED209 wrote: |
| How about chemical castration for the under 20's, that will cut teen sex |
Or chemical castration for chronic cheaters....
That's hardly the same thing and you know it...
Being intentionally obtuse won't win you points in this discussion, I think... |
Well there ain't no vaccine for that.
What I do pick up on is this being a matter of choice. We are now a society that questions doctors and the medical companies rather than simply believing they know what they are talking about.
In the UK many parents opted out of the triple MMR vaccine over fears (unproven ones) that the jab was linked to autism. With the mistrust over modern drug companies no one wants to put unknown drugs into their child's body despite the risks. As a result of the fears in the UK there was a rise in measles, mumps and rubella.
I don't know how much fear is being caused by the religious community but it is their MO. Maybe when the politicians and religious leaders daughters' hair starts falling out due to chemotherapy there will be changes. When it attacks their kin it is no longer a just punishment from god but a horrid disease worthy of millions in investment.
But back to my main point, which I think was about choice, we no longer take orders from the doc. We are the customer and we will decide. Or the magazines that housewives buy will decide, or Oprah will decide, but not the doctors, they eat babies. |
Well....you can chemically castrate...sex offenders in California at least.
They use depo provera, the birth control shot, on men. Basically drops their sex drive down to that of a prepubesent boy.
But somehow I don't see people using it on men who cheat....
But my problem is with it is "what's the harm". One less cancer to worry about. You would think that with the misery that cancer causes, that people would be happy for such a breakthrough but instead they use it to grandstand and highlight their religious views. They could make it mandatory but allow parents to opt out. That way when the girls of this generation become women and learn that they got PREVENTABLE cancer and are sterile or dying, they know to blame their parents and not the government.
And let me make this point crystal clear. You can have HPV without having symptoms. There is no test that conclusively determines if someone has HPV or not and let's take a look at the awe inspiring stats
| Quote: |
| 20 million, or 1 out of every 13 people: The approximate number of people who have the human papillomavirus (HPV), with over 5 million becoming infected annually. More shocking, 50 to 75% of sexually active men and women in the United States will acquire HPV at some point in their lives. |
http://www.acsh.org/factsfears/newsID.33/news_detail.asp
There are so many variants of HPV and the rate of infection is so high, that it's ridiculous to hope that the person you marry 1. is a virgin and 2. will never cheat on you....
| Code: |
| There are over 100 types of HPV, with thirty types of the disease passed through sexual contact. There is no known cure, but fortunately most cases of HPV clear up within six months. However, it is often symptomless and there lies the problem. Individuals are unaware that they carry the disease and thus pass it along. |
| Quote: |
| Cervical cancer is the first cancer affecting only females that has been found to be directly caused by a virus. A 1999 Journal of Pathology study concluded: "The worldwide HPV prevalence in cervical carcinomas is 99.7 per cent. The presence of HPV in virtually all cervical cancers implies the highest worldwide attributable fraction so far reported for a specific cause of any major human cancer." |
It's a virus, that we can put out of its misery if women get vaccinated and protected. Plain and simple...
| Woland wrote: |
Katha Pollitt has referred to the refusal to have young females vaccinated against HPV as "honor killing on the installment plan." You won't see that phrase in this recent column by her on this issue:
http://www.thenation.com/doc/20050530/pollitt
but it covers most of what is being said here about the fear and sexual repression that drive this stuff.
My younger brother has become a fundy, and is refusing to have his twelve year old vaccinated because of the message it will send her. I am so pissed - What message, idiot? Your mother and I don't care about your future health? If my mother were alive, healthcare professional that she was, she'd have his ass over this.
There is actually some evidence, weak, linking HPV to the occurrence of penile cancer in males. Penile cancer is rare, occurring mostly in men in their seventies. Not enough cases have occurred to make a strong link. I know about it, and this connection, because my father died of it. If that connection is strongly made, then, alyallen, I'll bet it'll become mandatory much more quickly. |
After reading that article....all I could think is keep religion out of my uterus!
I could make some snide comment about if this was about men, things would be different but I'm not looking to come out looking like a raving feminist and also men ALWAYS have a biological out. Oh..."He's sowing his wild oats" or "boys will be boys." Maybe we should be locking up horny boys so they don't give HPV to our chaste lassies?
Oh and to further point out the hilarity of this situation...I'd bet a billion dollars that if there was a higher ranking disease connected to sex like...brain cancer and the women and girls involved were African or Asian or Hispanic, how fast do you think people would be pushing a vaccine on them? |
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Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:20 am Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| But a valid point can be made that cervical cancer has nothing to do with school since it is not a disease that can be transmitted through normal everyday interactions such as coughing or sneezing.... |
So you think schools shouldn't require tetnus shots either? Schools are just a useful tool for the government to make sure most people are vaccinated.
Vaccinations should not be mandatory. In most states, they aren't. They aren't even required if you plan to attend public schools, but recommended, and families may have to do additional paperwork explaining their religious or personal beliefs. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 5:33 am Post subject: |
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| Doutdes wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| But a valid point can be made that cervical cancer has nothing to do with school since it is not a disease that can be transmitted through normal everyday interactions such as coughing or sneezing.... |
So you think schools shouldn't require tetnus shots either? Schools are just a useful tool for the government to make sure most people are vaccinated.
Vaccinations should not be mandatory. In most states, they aren't. They aren't even required if you plan to attend public schools, but recommended, and families may have to do additional paperwork explaining their religious or personal beliefs. |
Actually no....I was just making a "point" for the "other side." I'm all for making this mandatory especially for the reasons I listed in my previous post but I'm also aware of some reasons that people would disagree with my position. I'm sorting my feelings out about this issue as I go along, so I am not sticking to one particular viewpoint since other people bring up interesting issues and points that I wouldn't have thought of.... |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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Parents Use Religion To Avoid Vaccines
By STEVE LeBLANC, Associated Press Writer
Wed Oct 17, 6:19 PM ET
BOSTON - Sabrina Rahim doesn't practice any particular faith, but she had no problem signing a letter declaring that because of her deeply held religious beliefs, her 4-year-old son should be exempt from the vaccinations required to enter preschool.
She is among a small but growing number of parents around the country who are claiming religious exemptions to avoid vaccinating their children when the real reason may be skepticism of the shots or concern they can cause other illnesses. Some of these parents say they are being forced to lie because of the way the vaccination laws are written in their states.
"It's misleading," Rahim admitted, but she said she fears that earlier vaccinations may be to blame for her son's autism. "I find it very troubling, but for my son's safety, I feel this is the only option we have."
An Associated Press examination of states' vaccination records and data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that many states are seeing increases in the rate of religious exemptions claimed for kindergartners.
"Do I think that religious exemptions have become the default? Absolutely," said Dr. Paul Offit, head of infectious diseases at Children's Hospital in Philadelphia and one of the harshest critics of the anti-vaccine movement. He said the resistance to vaccines is "an irrational, fear-based decision."
The number of exemptions is extremely small in percentage terms and represents just a few thousand of the 3.7 million children entering kindergarten in 2005, the most recent figure available.
MORE ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071017/ap_on_re_us/vaccine_skeptics;_ylt=ArB0oACznWJhYk82vCSEEEoDW7oF |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Oct 17, 2007 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| There is no good evidence vaccines cause autism. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 2:33 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| There is no good evidence vaccines cause autism. |
The main reason people connect the vaccines to Autism is that Autism is now usually diagnosed at around the time the vaccines are given. But more health professionals are trained to diagnose the disease in general so an earlier diagnosis, sometimes when the child is brought in for the series of immunization shots, creates this hysteria. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Oct 18, 2007 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| There is no good evidence vaccines cause autism. |
The main reason people connect the vaccines to Autism is that Autism is now usually diagnosed at around the time the vaccines are given. But more health professionals are trained to diagnose the disease in general so an earlier diagnosis, sometimes when the child is brought in for the series of immunization shots, creates this hysteria. |
That's about it. Mercury hasn't been in vaccines for a decade now and, despite predictions by the Mercury Militia that we'd see rates fall, rates have increased. It's completely an artifact of better diagnostic techniques, awareness, and a broadening of the definition.
A couple years ago the New England Journal of Medicine ran the definitive study and it turned out negative. More recently, another definitive study at the behest of the Autism Moms was run, with full participation by a leading proponent of the vaccine/autism crowd, and the results were negative.
Other than the small but known risks, vaccinations are safe. The only reason we're confronted by this is it's been generations since children were dying of these childhood diseases en masse. It's been generations since we've had polio wards. Ask a parent in 1955 if he'd take the small risk versus the real danger of scarlet fever or polio. The choice would be pretty clear. Anyway, today no one has a neighbor who lost their child to scarlet fever but there's some hollywood mom on TV claiming vaccines hurt her child. Hrm! What to do?
But these diseases have not been eliminated like small pox (hence why no one gets small pox anymore, the small risk from the vaccine does outweigh the chances it will re-emerge). There are clusters even in the USA where some of them have come back because communities have joined in fear and avoided the vaccines. Vaccines only work when the bulk of the population gets them. |
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