|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
 Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 10:45 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Adventurer wrote: |
| mcgeezer wrote: |
stervemcgarrett wrote:
| Quote: |
| Moderate Arabs are given no place in the region |
Your're absolutely right about that Steve, I must agree with you!!
The problem is, most moderate arabs "In the region" of Israel are stuffed into one occupied territory (West Bank) and one chaotic 'concentration' project (Gaza), both being two of the most densly populated areas in the world....Heck, they can't even breath let alone be given their "place" to do anything else!! |
If you mean ultra-liberal Arabs, then you are right, they aren't given a lot of space. However, in some places they definitely have some sway like in Lebanon and Jordan. They could in Syria if Syria would liberalize somewhat i.e. there are many moderates there, but they can't breathe. Egypt doesn't have the same kind of base of moderates, but it does have them.
As far as the Leftists that Steve maligns, at least they were not religious in many cases (not all) and were a mixture of Muslims and Christians in alliance with each other and were many reforms and weren't necessarily for confronting the U.S. like the Soviets; they wanted liberation. However, since Kissinger was influencing the White House and Israel was against the Left they had to be destroyed rather than worked with and the fanatics were encouraged instead and we know the result of that.
The U.S. has only recently encouraged in a major way the moderates of the region. That is missing in this analysis.
As far as what DD said about Israel, Israel has committed terrorism since the definition includes the killing of civilians in a deliberate way and that includes the use of cluster bombs indiscriminately. However, the assassination of Walid Eiddo who was not anti-Israeli per se, but rather anti-Syrian doesn't make sense to have him been targeted by Israel.
Unless, you go with the Syrian argument that it is anti-Syrian forces simply trying to harm Syria and its allies.
I personally think that some rogue members of the Lebanese intelligence who were pro-Syrian and stand to lose if the status quo changes are very worried, and I personally think Syria is encouraging this violence since many Syrians are causing trouble in Lebanon and have been caught. It is more than coincidence to me. |
Walid Eiddo was killed in a Muslim district. It is the first targeting I think of a Muslim Lebanese target since Hariri. He was quite against Syria. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
|
| Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2007 11:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ddeubel wrote:
| Quote: |
| I also think they should be held to task |
That's a mighty bold stance for you. What did you have in mind? A light slap on the wrists of the Syrian ambassador from the Security Council ambassadors or a refusal to pay his parking tickets in Manhattan? 
mcgeezer:
Yes, we see how "moderate" the Palestinian leadership of Fatah was under Arafat and how "moderate" the Hamas thugs have become in recent years. Keep guzzling that brew.
Adventurer wrote:
| Quote: |
| If you mean ultra-liberal Arabs, then you are right |
You do relish mincing words, don't you? Was your college major Semantics? Look, any Arab who doesn't immediately advocate bloody revenge and who doesn't carry a semi-automatic weapon as a fashion accessory is already a moderate. No need to split hairs in this region. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
|
|
| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Ddeubel wrote:
| Quote: |
| I also think they should be held to task |
That's a mighty bold stance for you. What did you have in mind? A light slap on the wrists of the Syrian ambassador from the Security Council ambassadors or a refusal to pay his parking tickets in Manhattan?
mcgeezer:
Yes, we see how "moderate" the Palestinian leadership of Fatah was under Arafat and how "moderate" the Hamas thugs have become in recent years. Keep guzzling that brew.
Adventurer wrote:
| Quote: |
| If you mean ultra-liberal Arabs, then you are right |
You do relish mincing words, don't you? Was your college major Semantics? Look, any Arab who doesn't immediately advocate bloody revenge and who doesn't carry a semi-automatic weapon as a fashion accessory is already a moderate. No need to split hairs in this region. |
No, it was not semantics, but semantics are definitely important. What one classifies as a moderate is important. People don't use the same political criteria as you well know. I would consider many Leftists of the Middle East to be moderates, but you generally malign Leftists wholesale.
However, you clarified that in your writing above, and that's much appreciated. Obviously, we wouldn't consider Hamas to be a moderate camp. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 12:57 am Post subject: |
|
|
Seriously, I can't see any left or right or even moderate in this picture.
Economic policy aside where do they stand a on an independent Lebanon? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
|
| Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2007 3:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
Look, Adventurer,
the very painful fact that to espouse moderate views qualifies one for a bullet to the head speaks volumes about the debasement of political discourse in the Arab world.
You don't see the Jews running around shooting each other outside the Knesset. Granted, they have a few nutbags like the one who assassinated the former prime minister but they are very far and few between.
Militancy has become the NORM in the region, so the entire ideological spectrum is skewed beyond recognition. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
