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Climate change behind Darfur killing: UN's Ban
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Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2007 11:35 pm Post subject: Re: Climate change behind Darfur killing: UN's Ban

EFLtrainer wrote:

BJWD wrote:

Self-hating white leftists will absolve non-whites of any crime, for the most silly of reasons.

Quote:

I'm disgusted. bb, you are Disgusting.

I agree. I'm disgusted.

Hahaha. Good. As if I respect either of your opinions anyway.

BJWD delights in this horrible conflict, because he feels it helps justifies the little hate on he has for the 'muzzies.' But both sides of this conflict are muslim. It's not a religious war at all. And until very very recently no-one made the distinction 'arab' and 'African.'

Quote:

In the relief camps scattered around the Chad-Sudan border, the refugees from Darfur tell the same story - of an ancient shared way of life catastrophically lost. Less than a generation ago, Arabs and Africans coexisted peacefully and productively in Darfur, Sudan's arid western province which is more than twice the size of the United Kingdom. African farmers had allowed Arab herders to graze their camels and goats on the land, and the livestock had fertilised the soil.

The coexistence was so natural, in fact, the tribes of Darfur did not even think of themselves as Arab or African. It is only now, in light of the bloodshed of the past four years, that they look back and affix ethnic titles to the protagonists in their story, with all non-Arabs claiming the title African. Only a few years ago, it was just nomads and farmers.

Yes, there are other political reasons for this war. But the fight over scarce resources is a serious and contributing factor. BJWD likes to ignore this, because climate change (the consequence of rampant consumerism on a planet that only supports finite resources) blights his rose coloured view of his own religion: unfettered capitalism, with Milton Friedman its prophet. In his own way, BJWD is very similar to a religious zealot, who will not let science and cold hard fact get in the way of what he wants to believe. And before you make silly assumptions about me, yes I've enjoyed the capitalist system too, but I'm forced to acknowledge that, unless it is seriously modified to take into account the delicate planet that sustains us, it is not going to carry us for many generations.

Arab against African. I've noticed quite a few posters fall into the trap of thinking this is a war of muslims against non-muslims. In fact they are both African, and they are both muslim. But, that has been a very convenient new labelling that goes down well with a media machine that currently has a hard on for reporting the transgressions of muslims, particularly Arab muslims. Contrast that with the dearth of reportage on the war of the Congo, where up to 4 million people have been killed. More people are still being killed in this war (that supposedly ended in 2003) than are being killed in Darfur. But for some reason, it's not so sexy.

Read the following snippet from News Week. Now imagine if this conflict largely involved muslims. It would be much more widely reported. As it happens, I almost never see the Congo mentioned in the Murdoch rag I have delivered daily to my door. Funny that.

Quote:

More Vicious Than Rape

The atrocity reports from eastern Congo were so hellish that Western medical experts refused to believe them�at first.

This is about fistulas�and rape, which in Congo has become the continuation of war by other means. Fistulas are a kind of damage that is seldom seen in the developed world. Many obstetricians have encountered the condition only in their medical texts, as a rare complication associated with difficult or abnormal childbirths: a rupture of the walls that separate the vagina and bladder or rectum. Where health care is poor, particularly where trained doctors or midwives are not available, fistulas are more of a risk. They are a major health concern in many parts of Africa.

In eastern Congo, however, the problem is practically an epidemic. When a truce was declared in the war there in 2003, so many cases began showing up that Western medical experts at first called it impossible�especially when local doctors declared that most of the fistulas they were seeing were the consequence of rapes. "No one wanted to believe it at first," says Lyn Lusi, manager of the HEAL Africa hospital (formerly called the Docs Hospital) in the eastern Congo city of Goma. "When our doctors first published their results, in 2003, this was unheard of."

It had been no secret that nearly all sides in the Congo's complex civil war resorted to systematic rape among civilian populations, and estimates were as high as a quarter million victims of sexual assault during the four-year-long conflict. But once fighting died down, victims began coming out of the jungles and forests and their condition was worse than anyone had imagined. Thousands of women had been raped so brutally that they had fistulas. They wandered into hospitals soaked in their own urine and feces, rendered incontinent by their injuries. "Pastors would say to me, 'Jo, I can't preach because the church is too smelly," says Dr. Jo Lusi, a gynecologist and medical director at HEAL. (He and Lyn Lusi are husband and wife.) "No one wanted to be around them. These women were outcasts even more than rape victims usually are. They would say to me, 'Dr. Jo, am I just a thing to throw away when I smell bad?' "

The rapes�and new reports of fistula damage�have not stopped. Even now, "It is still happening, even today," says HEAL's medical director, Doctor Lusi. "Every space we have in the hospital is very, very busy with people." Most of the dozen or so militias in the country have signed on to peace terms, and their battles with each other and with the Congolese Army have mostly stopped since the arrival of United Nations peacekeepers. But many of the armed groups�even those that have made peace�continue to attack civilians, especially in rural areas. "They won't go ahead and fight each other, [but] they attack that village that supports the other group," says Lyn Lusi. "This is a horrible perpetual movement of militias. They join after their families are killed, sometimes right in front of them. They see their women raped, and then they go and do the same thing. It's a cycle of violence."

To read full article click here

Of course the killers in this (Sudanese) conflict are to blame for the carnage they leave. I have never said differently. You jump to that conclusion because it turns you on to think I think that way. But, there are reasons why people go to war and kill. And we are discussing one of the reasons.

safeblad

Joined: 17 Jul 2006

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 12:20 am Post subject:

News Flash: Famine is man made Famine does not mean there is not enough food to go round, famine occurs when some people do not have access to food. (we all know the story of the english with the irish potatoes) In Darfur there is or was enough food to go round, these people have been prevented from producing food, as well as prevented from receiving food aid. It is more of a security issue than a drought issue, This is a bit of a familiar situation in Sudan now isnt it ? No doubt natural factors have played a part but it would be foolish to overlook the political and economic causes of this famine. The famine in Darfur is not the cause of a conflict it is a symptom of the conflict, even if it was not caused deliberately, which is debatable it has been allowed to progress because it serves the purposes of the people cbcclarke refers to as 'the islamists'. The famine in Darfur is a political process which should be tackled through political (military) means. This talk of global warming really clouds the real issues.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 1:06 am Post subject:

safeblad wrote:

News Flash: Famine is man made

Famine does not mean there is not enough food to go round, famine occurs when some people do not have access to food. (we all know the story of the english with the irish potatoes)

In Darfur there is or was enough food to go round, these people have been prevented from producing food, as well as prevented from receiving food aid. It is more of a security issue than a drought issue,

This is a bit of a familiar situation in Sudan now isnt it ? No doubt natural factors have played a part but it would be foolish to overlook the political and economic causes of this famine. The famine in Darfur is not the cause of a conflict it is a symptom of the conflict, even if it was not caused deliberately, which is debatable it has been allowed to progress because it serves the purposes of the people cbcclarke refers to as 'the islamists'.

The famine in Darfur is a political process which should be tackled through political (military) means. This talk of global warming really clouds the real issues.

The drought that caused the scarcity of resources began in the 80s, long before this war arose. But it created tensions between the two groups that helped give rise to the conflict we see today.

If you think I am overlooking the political and economic causes, you are quite wrong. But my point to the OP that it was not so ridiculous to consider that climate change had a hand in this. Then the usual sillies came out and called me a self-hating whitey, excusing the attrocities of swarthy looking ethnic types.

safeblad

Joined: 17 Jul 2006

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:34 am Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

safeblad wrote:

OK fine but what really caused the scarcity of resources? Drought for sure + both sides of the civil war in the 80s employing scorched earth policies, stealing of livestock, poisoning of wells etc .

Sudan = Man made famine

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 2:59 am Post subject:

safeblad wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

safeblad wrote:

Yes, especially when you take into account that Climate Change is almost certainly manmade. Wink

safeblad

Joined: 17 Jul 2006

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 3:03 am Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

safeblad wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

safeblad wrote:

Yes, especially when you take into account that Climate Change is almost certainly manmade. Wink

you are sharp, too sharp for me

thepeel

Joined: 08 Aug 2004

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 4:11 am Post subject:

Ah yes. The genocide is about my racism towards the muzzies. To true. I guess we can just say that the war in Iraq isn't about Bush's hegemonic ambitions but the CAUSE is "oil scarcity". Or, to we only apply cause/effect to whites? I think so. Apologize for the actions of arab muslims and blame their actions on "climate change". All is well in the lefty universe.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:35 pm Post subject:

BJWD wrote:

Ah yes. The genocide is about my racism towards the muzzies. To true.

I guess we can just say that the war in Iraq isn't about Bush's hegemonic ambitions but the CAUSE is "oil scarcity". Or, to we only apply cause/effect to whites?

I think so.

Apologize for the actions of arab muslims and blame their actions on "climate change". All is well in the lefty universe.

As usual, you put words in my mouth, ascribing to me views that very different from the ones that spring from my own thoughts. All you have written above is fantasy. You fantasise about my views. Quite fascininating.

cbclark4

Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2007 10:26 pm Post subject:

Big_Bird wrote:

Yes, especially when you take into account that Climate Change is almost certainly manmade. Wink

Yes man is ever so much more powerful than the sun. Wink

And there never really was an Ice Age it was just a cartoon.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:00 am Post subject:

cbclark4 wrote:

Big_Bird wrote:

Yes, especially when you take into account that Climate Change is almost certainly manmade. Wink

Yes man is ever so much more powerful than the sun. Wink

And there never really was an Ice Age it was just a cartoon.

Whatever, cbc. You are much cleverer than the majority of the world's most eminent environmental and climate scientists. They are just talking crap, of course. Probably a load of bleeding heart liberals, the lot of 'em, eh? Wink

Climate change in the past was caused by various factors. The industrial revolution is a key factor in this climate change. At least according those who spend their lives studying it...

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:11 am Post subject:

Another relevant article for those who are actually interested in looking at what part, if any, global warming is/has played in this conflict:

A Hostile Climate

Quote:

Lost in discussions about ending the Sudanese government's attacks on its people, however, is the acknowledgment of how the dispute began: Darfur may well be the first war influenced by climate change.

In recent years, increasing drought cycles and the Sahara's southward expansion have created conflicts between nomadic and sedentary groups over shortages of water and land. This scarcity highlighted the central government's gross neglect of the Darfur region�a trend stretching back to colonial rule. Forsaken, desperate and hungry, groups of Darfurians attacked government outposts in protest. The response was the Janjaweed and supporting air strikes.

The theory that current climate change will result in resource scarcity that could spark warfare has gained traction in the past decade, with research on the topic commissioned by organizations ranging from the United Nations to the Pentagon. In March, British Home Secretary John Reid publicly fingered global warming as a driving force behind the genocide in Darfur. "[Environmental] changes make the emergence of vio-lent conflict more rather than less likely," he said. "The blunt truth is that the lack of water and agricultural land is a significant contributory factor to the tragic conflict we see unfolding in Darfur. We should see this as a warning sign."

Desertification and increasingly regular drought cycles in Darfur have diminished the availability of water, livestock and arable land. "The effect of climate change on these resources has been a latent problem," said Leslie Lefkow, an expert on Darfur with Human Rights Watch. "And instead of addressing the cause of that tension and putting money into development of water resources...the government has done nothing. So the tensions have grown. And these tensions are one of the reasons why the rebellion started."

Chalking the Darfur conflict up to climate change alone would be an oversimplification, argues Eric Reeves, a leading advocate and a professor of English literature at Smith College. "The greater cause, by far, lies in the policies of the current National Islamic Front regime," he said. Marc Lavergne, a researcher with the French National Center for Scientific Research and former head of the Centre D'Etudes et de Documentation Universitaire Scientifique et Technique at the University of Khartoum, agrees. "The problem is not water shortage as such, and water shortages don't necessarily lead to war. The real problem is the lack of agricultural and other development policies to make the best use of available water resources since colonial times."

Again, I shall point out to the little monkeys here who can only think in simple terms, I do not believe climate change is the only reason for the conflict. Nor do I think that climate change justifies the horrific attrocities of the janjaweed.

Extraordinary that I even have to write a disclaimer like that, but this forum is infested with the strangests of logicians, who extrapolate the strangest of conclusions from the things one has never said.

postfundie

Joined: 28 May 2004

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:17 am Post subject:

Quote:

yes you most certainly do not believe it is the ONLY reason for the conflict but you would rather post on that than say anything of substance or at length about the role of Jihad

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:23 am Post subject:

Another article written by a professor of economics, Jeff Sachs:

War Climates

Quote:

Our political systems and global politics are largely unequipped for the real challenges of today�s world. Global economic growth and rising populations are putting unprecedented stresses on the physical environment, and these stresses in turn are causing unprecedented challenges for our societies. Yet politicians are largely ignorant of these trends. Governments are not organized to meet them. And crises that are fundamentally ecological in nature are managed by outdated strategies of war and diplomacy.

Consider, for example, the situation in Darfur, Sudan. This horrible conflict is being addressed through threats of military force, sanctions and generally the language of war and peacekeeping. Yet the undoubted origin of the conflict is the region�s extreme poverty, which was made disastrously worse in the 1980s by a drought that has essentially lasted until today. It appears that long-term climate change is leading to lower rainfall not only in Sudan, but also in much of Africa just south of the Sahara Desert�an area where life depends on the rains, and where drought means death.

Darfur has been caught in a drought-induced death trap, but nobody has seen fit to approach the Darfur crisis from the perspective of long-term development rather than the perspective of war. Darfur needs a water strategy more than a military strategy. Its 7 million people cannot survive without a new approach that gives them a chance to grow crops and water their animals. Yet all of the talk at the United Nations is about sanctions and armies, with no path to peace in sight.

Click on the link above to read the rest of it.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:24 am Post subject:

postfundie wrote:

Quote:

yes you most certainly do not believe it is the ONLY reason for the conflict but you would rather post on that than say anything of substance or at length about the role of Jihad

And you would rather get hard thinking about the role of Jihad. This thread is about the role of climate change in the Darfur conflict, mudbrains. Go back and read the OP.

Big_Bird

Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2007 1:39 am Post subject:

And finally, an article from TIME (not normally known for its self-hating whitey apologists for the transgressions of swarthy looking ethnicky types).

Quote:

Darfur, a barren, mountainous land just below the Sahara in western Sudan, is the world's worst man-made disaster. In four years, according to the U.N., fighting has killed more than 200,000 people and made refugees of 2.5 million more. The conflict is typically characterized as genocide, waged by the Arab Janjaweed and their backers in the Sudanese government, against Darfur's black Africans. But what is often overlooked is that the roots of the conflict may have more to do with ecology than ethnicity. To live on the poor and arid soil of the Sahel--just south of the Sahara--is to be mired in an eternal fight for water, food and shelter. The few pockets of good land have been the focus of intermittent conflict for decades between nomads (who tend to be Arabs) and settled farmers (who are both Arab and African). That competition is intensifying. The Sahara is advancing steadily south, smothering soil with sand. Rainfall has been declining in the region for the past half-century, according to the National Center for Atmospheric Research. In Darfur there are too many people in a hot, poor, shrinking land, and it's not hard to start a fight in a place like that.

The devastation of Darfur highlights the potentially catastrophic effects of climate change on societies across Africa. The U.N. estimates that the lives of as many as 90 million Africans--most of them in and around the Sahara--could be "at risk" on account of global warming. Many of Africa's armed conflicts can be explained as tinderboxes of climate change lit by the spark of ancient rivalry. In Somalia, nearly two decades of anarchy have been exacerbated by eight years of drought. In Zimbabwe, relief agencies say President Robert Mugabe's disastrous rule is being overtaken by an even greater catastrophe, a three-month drought that wiped out the maize crop, fueling tensions between government-allied haves and opposition have-nots. Apart from drought, other environmental challenges can prove deadly. A growing number of experts believe the 1994 genocide in Rwanda is best understood as a contest between too many people on too little land.

Environmental skeptics, including the Bush Administration, dispute the more dire predictions about climate change. But others in the developed world are beginning to sound alarms about the weather's role in warmaking. On April 16, 11 former U.S. admirals and generals published a report for the think tank CNA Corporation that described climate change as a "threat multiplier" in volatile parts of the world. The next day, British Foreign Secretary Margaret Beckett hosted the first-ever debate on climate change and armed conflict at the U.N. Security Council. "What makes wars start?" asked Beckett. "Fights over water. Changing patterns of rainfall. Fights over food production, land use. There are few greater potential threats to our economies too ... but also to peace and security itself."

For full article click here

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