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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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How do you win the war?
Is it won when you get Bin Ladin? When Saddam is removed? When the WMD are found? When does the point of 'we won' happen? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:48 pm Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| Just like Korea in 1953! |
the US got the better of the other side during the cold war. When North Korea falls there will be no question about who won the cold war. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Tue Aug 07, 2007 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
How do you win the war?
Is it won when you get Bin Ladin? When Saddam is removed? When the WMD are found? When does the point of 'we won' happen? |
When there is terrible , horrible damage to the terrorists and their supporters get scared , demoralized and lose hope |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:02 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
How do you win the war?
Is it won when you get Bin Ladin? When Saddam is removed? When the WMD are found? When does the point of 'we won' happen? |
When there is terrible , horrible damage to the terrorists and their supporters get scared and demoralized . |
WHAT? You want to do terrible and horrible damage in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan where the terrorists are at?  But they are allies!
NO WAY! |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:15 am Post subject: |
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Get the Saudi security services to kill the terrorists and their supporters. They even know where they are.
Changing the strategic situation of the mideast will help bring that about.
Also it would have been very hard to pressure Saudi Arabia while Saddam was in power. To go after Saudi Arabia w/o taking care of Saddam first would have freed Saddam.
The war in terror is more than Saudi , and Pakistan.
Iran is also part of the terror problem and with better weapons Iran can be strategicallly neutralized.
But you are right the US does need to do a lot more assassinations and targeted killings if the US is going to be sucessful. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 10:15 am Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
How do you win the war?
Is it won when you get Bin Ladin? When Saddam is removed? When the WMD are found? When does the point of 'we won' happen? |
When there is terrible , horrible damage to the terrorists and their supporters get scared and demoralized . |
WHAT? You want to do terrible and horrible damage in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan where the terrorists are at? But they are allies!
NO WAY! |
*groan*
I don't want to hear anyone complain about Iraq while they advocate bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan... |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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eh why not?
Apples and oranges.
But yes, Gately has a good point: what about the Iraqi gov't? It is a vital player in this. If it isn't going along with things and in fact being counterproductive, all the US efforts will be for naught. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 12:22 pm Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| When there is terrible , horrible damage to the terrorists and their supporters get scared and demoralized . |
WHAT? You want to do terrible and horrible damage in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan where the terrorists are at? Shocked But they are allies!
NO WAY! |
*groan*
I don't want to hear anyone complain about Iraq while they advocate bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan... |
I don't think Tiger Beer was advocating bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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| But yes, Gately has a good point: what about the Iraqi gov't? It is a vital player in this. If it isn't going along with things and in fact being counterproductive, all the US efforts will be for naught. |
Let's not forget the real question here.....the illegitimacy of this govt. I just laugh at all the "righteous" people arguing about Iraq without even addressing the rot at the core of their own arguements. How can you even discuss Iraq and "winning" when at the heart of everything is a govt that is illegitimate. Elected in a set up and managed fashion, by an illegal invader.
If the Americans had atleast sat back and let them have a free and fair election, I'd reluctantly agree with much said about "winning". But from the moment they meddled and began paying off with money, parties, began saying who can and can't, began manipulating the expression of the Iraqi people - the war was definitely lost.
DD |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 5:26 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| Quote: |
| When there is terrible , horrible damage to the terrorists and their supporters get scared and demoralized . |
WHAT? You want to do terrible and horrible damage in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan where the terrorists are at? Shocked But they are allies!
NO WAY! |
*groan*
I don't want to hear anyone complain about Iraq while they advocate bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan... |
I don't think Tiger Beer was advocating bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. |
If not than my apologies. I spent a few emails arguing with a friend of mine (decidedly more left than me) on why invading Pakistan was a bad idea. Maybe I'm being trigger-happy. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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Just who are these terrorists?
Most come from Saudi Arabia according to this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20070808/wl_mcclatchy/20070808bcusiraqsuicidebombers_attn_national_foreign_editors_ytop;_ylt=Au.J6XpHVejJmunKhQy8IJWs0NUE
Hafez, whose new book is "Suicide Bombers in Iraq ," has identified the nationalities of 124 bombers who attacked in Iraq . Of those, the largest number� 53� were Saudis. Eight apiece came from Italy and Syria , seven from Kuwait , four from Jordan and two each from Belgium , France and Spain . Others came from North and East Africa , South Asia and various Middle Eastern and European countries. Only 18� 15 percent� were Iraqis.
In the second study, Robert Pape , a University of Chicago professor who runs the Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism, identified the nationalities of 55 suicide bombers in Iraq . Sixteen were Saudis, seven were Syrians and five were Algerians. Kuwait , Morocco and Tunisia each supplied three bombers. Thirteen� 24 percent� were Iraqi Sunni Muslims.
No Iranians?? Go figure..  |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:07 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| When there is terrible , horrible damage to the terrorists and their supporters get scared and demoralized . |
WHAT? You want to do terrible and horrible damage in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan where the terrorists are at? Shocked But they are allies!
NO WAY! |
*groan*
I don't want to hear anyone complain about Iraq while they advocate bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan... |
I don't think Tiger Beer was advocating bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. |
If not than my apologies. I spent a few emails arguing with a friend of mine (decidedly more left than me) on why invading Pakistan was a bad idea. Maybe I'm being trigger-happy. |
I'm definitely NOT advocating bombing Saudia Arabia or Pakistan.
It was intended as sarcasm.
Personally I think Iraq was never related to terrorism/Al Quaida/Bin Ladin...and Bush has spent way too much time and money in the wrong place and the wrong method for finding Bin Ladin, fighting Al Quaida, and fighting terrorism. I also don't believe military might in Baghdad (or even in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia) is what would stop global terrorism - it would just escalate it and make it more likely. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| ddeubel wrote: |
| Quote: |
| But yes, Gately has a good point: what about the Iraqi gov't? It is a vital player in this. If it isn't going along with things and in fact being counterproductive, all the US efforts will be for naught. |
Let's not forget the real question here.....the illegitimacy of this govt. I just laugh at all the "righteous" people arguing about Iraq without even addressing the rot at the core of their own arguements. How can you even discuss Iraq and "winning" when at the heart of everything is a govt that is illegitimate. Elected in a set up and managed fashion, by an illegal invader.
If the Americans had atleast sat back and let them have a free and fair election, I'd reluctantly agree with much said about "winning". But from the moment they meddled and began paying off with money, parties, began saying who can and can't, began manipulating the expression of the Iraqi people - the war was definitely lost.
DD |
the elections were certified as free and fair and w/o a doubt Iraq is far more democratic than the vast majority of mideast nations.
| Quote: |
Friday 10 February 2006-Secretary-General Welcomes Certified Result of Elections in Iran
The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has welcomed the announcement of the final certified results of the December 15 national elections in Iraq.
The Independent Electoral Commission of Iraq released the certified results today. In a statement issued by his spokesman on Friday, the Secretary-General again paid tribute to the courageous commitment of the Iraqi people to the democratic process as demonstrated by the participation of millions of voters. |
http://radio.un.org/story.asp?NewsID=3912
Since the mideast is so undemocratic why are you spending your time looking at the faults of one of the more democratic governments in the mideast?
More selective criticism from the left wing.
To be left wing on foreign policy is to engage in selective one sided criticism of the US or its allies.
Last edited by Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee on Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| some waygug-in wrote: |
Just who are these terrorists?
Most come from Saudi Arabia according to this article:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/mcclatchy/20070808/wl_mcclatchy/20070808bcusiraqsuicidebombers_attn_national_foreign_editors_ytop;_ylt=Au.J6XpHVejJmunKhQy8IJWs0NUE
Hafez, whose new book is "Suicide Bombers in Iraq ," has identified the nationalities of 124 bombers who attacked in Iraq . Of those, the largest number� 53� were Saudis. Eight apiece came from Italy and Syria , seven from Kuwait , four from Jordan and two each from Belgium , France and Spain . Others came from North and East Africa , South Asia and various Middle Eastern and European countries. Only 18� 15 percent� were Iraqis.
In the second study, Robert Pape , a University of Chicago professor who runs the Chicago Project on Suicide Terrorism, identified the nationalities of 55 suicide bombers in Iraq . Sixteen were Saudis, seven were Syrians and five were Algerians. Kuwait , Morocco and Tunisia each supplied three bombers. Thirteen� 24 percent� were Iraqi Sunni Muslims.
No Iranians?? Go figure.. |
Iran supports another terror goup called Hizzbollah. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Aug 08, 2007 8:34 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| When there is terrible , horrible damage to the terrorists and their supporters get scared and demoralized . |
WHAT? You want to do terrible and horrible damage in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan where the terrorists are at? Shocked But they are allies!
NO WAY! |
*groan*
I don't want to hear anyone complain about Iraq while they advocate bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan... |
I don't think Tiger Beer was advocating bombing Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. |
If not than my apologies. I spent a few emails arguing with a friend of mine (decidedly more left than me) on why invading Pakistan was a bad idea. Maybe I'm being trigger-happy. |
I'm definitely NOT advocating bombing Saudia Arabia or Pakistan.
It was intended as sarcasm.
Personally I think Iraq was never related to terrorism/Al Quaida/Bin Ladin...and Bush has spent way too much time and money in the wrong place and the wrong method for finding Bin Ladin, fighting Al Quaida, and fighting terrorism. I also don't believe military might in Baghdad (or even in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia) is what would stop global terrorism - it would just escalate it and make it more likely. |
70,000 trained in Al Qaeda camps in Afghanistan during the 1990s. While the US was protecting muslims and while Bin Laden and Saddam were killing them.
Rep . Paul thanks for coming here tonight .
Question one . Does Al Qaeda fight for the Caliphate? |
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