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| Is "what?" rude? |
| Yes, very |
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16% |
[ 6 ] |
| A little perhaps, but nothing to go nuts about |
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54% |
[ 20 ] |
| No |
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29% |
[ 11 ] |
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| Total Votes : 37 |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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 Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:02 am Post subject: |
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There's nothing at all rude about plain English 'What?'. Use of 'Pardon?' or 'Excuse me?' as a supposedly more polite substitute is pretentious - and a bit unmanly, like a limp handshake.  |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Privateer wrote: |
| There's nothing at all rude about plain English 'What?'. Use of 'Pardon?' or 'Excuse me?' as a supposedly more polite substitute is pretentious - and a bit unmanly, like a limp handshake. |
I agree with Privateer and BK on this. When I say "Pardon?" I feel like a pompous prat. It's so school ma'amish. Makes me feel like a Softy Shandy-Sipping Southern Shyte! "What" feels down to earth. Rudeness for me is mostly about intention. It all depends on the tone of voice and facial expression with which the offending "what" is delivered. |
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wo buxihuan hanguoren
Joined: 18 Apr 2007
Location: Suyuskis
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 8:28 am Post subject: |
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"What?" from strangers (depending on the tone) in South Africa is very rude, therefore it must be rude everywhere, because we can drink the tap water in SA and are thus global.
Global. |
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jindodog
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: not seoul
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| Posted: Sun Aug 26, 2007 9:43 pm Post subject: |
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i always say 'what?' and none of the others...where i come from (midwest of america) i've never gotten a dirty look or any suprised glances etc. but here i have had other native english speakers taken aback  . I think 'what?' is fine, as long as the tone is polite.  |
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jeffkim1972
Joined: 10 Jan 2007
Location: Mokpo
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: |
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During my brief stint as a hagwon fill-in, there was this elementary student named james, maybe 11 years old, can't remember. Everytime i would call his name, "Jaaammmmesssss!!" he would just reply with "Whhhaaaattttt?!?!?!" in the most 'why are you bothering me' tone. it was quite funny.
Quite the ladies man also, all the other little girls called him "ajoshi", but he moved to Incheon..... |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| jeffkim1972 wrote: |
| During my brief stint as a hagwon fill-in, there was this elementary student named james, maybe 11 years old, can't remember. Everytime i would call his name, "Jaaammmmesssss!!" he would just reply with "Whhhaaaattttt?!?!?!" in the most 'why are you bothering me' tone. it was quite funny. |
Cool.
And you got your students to say 'What?'! I hate it when they say 'Why?'. |
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cubanlord
Joined: 08 Jul 2005
Location: In Japan!
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 4:23 pm Post subject: Re: What |
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| chris_J2 wrote: |
| Depends very much on the context... |
A good friend of mine pointed this thread out to me last night over dinner; I decided to have a look see.
Chris_J2,
You hit the nail on the head. The word 'what' can be derogative in nature if used in a negative context, especially in a formal setting (e.g. a business meeting of some sort, when you are first getting to know someone, etc.). However, it can be considered normal when used in an informal setting among friends. Also, the tone in which the word is used also affects the receiver's interpretation of the word. For example, 'what' with the 'at' stressed at the end could be interpreted as aggressive or one being surprised depending on how high of a pitch you use in pronouncing the word.
I think for the average Joe it is pretty straight forward which tones are acceptable and which ones are not, that is, when discussing one's native language. If you are talking about a second or foreign language, then you are getting into the nuances of a language. This just goes to show that learning a language entails so much more than just knowing the properties of grammar and being able to produce intelligible sentences. |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Its totally a UK vs North America thing. No more, no less.
I learned last summer while taking a TEFL course in the presence of 10 brits (and my fiance and I the only 2 non-brits except she is from Australia which is closer to the UK than the USA, anyway..) that in the UK it - and many other things - are considered rude that are not rude in the USA.
As far as teaching... I dont think it matters which way you teach as long as you explain the difference to your students... ie, if you go to the UK, say "pardon me" and not "what". |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
Its totally a UK vs North America thing. No more, no less.
As far as teaching... I dont think it matters which way you teach as long as you explain the difference to your students... ie, if you go to the UK, say "pardon me" and not "what". |
I would never say pardon me it sounds ridiculous
Cubanlord mentioned that it is partly an issue of tone and context, which is true, it is possible to use similar phrases like 'excuse me; in a way which is hostile and rude.
I guess it comes down to what you would say at a job interview if you didnt hear correctly
i'm british and would probably say one of
sorry?
sorry, what?
sorry, what's that?
sorry what did you say?etc etc
or maybe excuse me. maybe |
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pest2
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Location: Vancouver, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:16 pm Post subject: |
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| safeblad wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
Its totally a UK vs North America thing. No more, no less.
As far as teaching... I dont think it matters which way you teach as long as you explain the difference to your students... ie, if you go to the UK, say "pardon me" and not "what". |
I would never say pardon me it sounds ridiculous
Cubanlord mentioned that it is partly an issue of tone and context, which is true, it is possible to use similar phrases like 'excuse me; in a way which is hostile and rude.
I guess it comes down to what you would say at a job interview if you didnt hear correctly
i'm british and would probably say one of
sorry?
sorry, what?
sorry, what's that?
sorry what did you say?etc etc
or maybe excuse me. maybe |
In the US, we wouldnt say "sorry?" because that sounds too British. |
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safeblad
Joined: 17 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 6:20 pm Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
| safeblad wrote: |
| pest2 wrote: |
Its totally a UK vs North America thing. No more, no less.
As far as teaching... I dont think it matters which way you teach as long as you explain the difference to your students... ie, if you go to the UK, say "pardon me" and not "what". |
I would never say pardon me it sounds ridiculous
Cubanlord mentioned that it is partly an issue of tone and context, which is true, it is possible to use similar phrases like 'excuse me; in a way which is hostile and rude.
I guess it comes down to what you would say at a job interview if you didnt hear correctly
i'm british and would probably say one of
sorry?
sorry, what?
sorry, what's that?
sorry what did you say?etc etc
or maybe excuse me. maybe |
In the US, we wouldnt say "sorry?" because that sounds too British. |
Because it sounds too British? |
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SPINOZA
Joined: 10 Jun 2005
Location: $eoul
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| pest2 wrote: |
Its totally a UK vs North America thing. No more, no less.
I learned last summer while taking a TEFL course in the presence of 10 brits (and my fiance and I the only 2 non-brits except she is from Australia which is closer to the UK than the USA, anyway..) that in the UK it - and many other things - are considered rude that are not rude in the USA.
As far as teaching... I dont think it matters which way you teach as long as you explain the difference to your students... ie, if you go to the UK, say "pardon me" and not "what". |
That's absolute tosh. I hear North Americans say "excuse me?" (that's a total North Americanism) and "pardon me?" all the time.
I think, anywhere you go in the English-speaking world, if you say "what?" to a job interviewer, it will sound inappropriate. English has formal and informal register for formal and informal settings and I make "what?" informal.
Korea-Berjano was extremely rude but very funny and perhaps right. My OP was very pompous and, yes, I'm originally from Manchester but moved away at age 13. I agree that the social class of person in Manchester's suburbs is very low, but places such as Withington, Didsbury and adjoining towns like Trafford and Timperley are as affluent as a the wealthiest parts of London and Home Counties. Central Manchester, since the IRA bomb in 1996, has also emerged as one of the most vibrant, affluent, desirable (and thus most expensive) places to live in England. I suggest you review your view of Manchester to one more appropriate for the modern context and not least reconsider your immediate association of levels of speech in English to social class. And besides - unless a person is from Hull ("Bicardi and diet Kirk") - social class and region prejudice amongst fellow Brits taints the nation. |
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jindodog
Joined: 31 May 2007
Location: not seoul
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:11 pm Post subject: |
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| as i said before, i would hardly use anything other than 'what?' however, in the politest of situations i would probably use sorry? or sorry what? and i'm American.... |
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kermo
Joined: 01 Sep 2004
Location: Eating eggs, with a comb, out of a shoe.
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
He said "Captain" I said "Wot"
Listen to that to 'ear 'ow to say "Wot" proppa... |
It's tragic that dance technology of that era has been lost to us. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Mon Aug 27, 2007 8:16 pm Post subject: |
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| kermo wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
He said "Captain" I said "Wot"
Listen to that to 'ear 'ow to say "Wot" proppa... |
It's tragic that dance technology of that era has been lost to us. |
Captain Sensible was a punk rocker (from The Damned) and I believe (and certainly hope) that he was out to take the piss. |
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