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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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 Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| jinju wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
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| Geez, its not like ireland is a real country anyway. They survive off EU subsidies |
Your from Canada? Where they still have the Queen on the money? mmm
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Yes we do, however Canada doesnt beg for money from the US like the Irish do from Brussels. Without massive EU subsidies Ireland would remain the backwards potato eating hole it has always been. |
Yeah, that isn't true. The Irish did benefit from EU funds, but the economic miracle was due to structural reasons.
Potato's are good. |
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Tony_Balony
Joined: 12 Apr 2007
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| There are millions of Black children without education, food, sanitation, medical care and basic human rights in Africa. So whats the big deal? |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Tue Sep 04, 2007 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Ireland will be paying that same money back to the newer EU countries. I think that is the idea of the EU.
Now on to Nautilus.
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1) Their ultra-nationalism and racism. You will feel as out of place in Ireland as you will in Korea. Because they see all foreigners as the enemy.
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Really, Ireland is ultra nationalistic? Why then did Sinn Fein not win the last election? People are proud to be Irish, but not to that extent. Define ultra nationalistic.
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2)Both countries are small and have histories of being invaded and keeping out all foreigners in order to preserve their culture.
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Maybe attempting to keep out all foreigners. We didn't keep out the celts, vikings, saxons, normans, english. Where is your evidence that the Irish government attempts to keep out foreigners so as to perserve our culture? Thats a ludicrous statement as you could apply it to almost any country.
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| 3) Both countries have an historic victim mentality. |
There is a reason. But yea the whole '800 years' thing does get old.
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| 4) Both countries have a master race philosophy: they think their race is superior and all others are second best. They are homogenous |
This is so not true it is not even funny. I don't know any Irish person who even think there is even an irish race. Seriously that is idiotic.
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| 5) Both countries are islands: (korea is virtually an island: no borders to any other country). isolated from the rest of the world. |
Ireland is right beside England, the greatest power in the world for a few hundred years.
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6) both countries have performed an economic miracle, spurred on by patriotic fervour.
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Spurred on by money.
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| 7) Both countries don't like anything different from what they're used to |
I like korean women and spanish women, american football, cribbage ...maybe I should renounce my citizenship.
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| Both countries have a poor cultural heritage. Lack of diversity or interraction with other cultures. |
How does the second part of your statement lead to the first part? Unless you were an empire or have had mass immigration you have poor cultural heritage?
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| 9) Both countries come out with a similar "warm-hearted" generosity. But behind the superficial welcome, they just want you to leave. |
Yea the whole country thinks like that. maybe it was just you. I assume your personality has this effect on people.
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| 10 ) Both countries populations have emigrated en masse to the west: yet they hate it when a foreigner wants to live in their country |
Irish people didn't emigrate en masse to the west. They were already in the west, then emigrated en masse to the US, England and Australia.
Some Irish people don't like foreigners..same in every country.
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| Take it from me: I have lived 4 years in ireland, and 4 years in korea |
I'm curious, where exactly in Ireland did you live? nd do you think it is a coincidence that you found this attitude in 2 countries you've lived so long in? |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:55 am Post subject: |
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| Potato's are good. |
?
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| This trend toward immigration demands as some kind of entitlement is ridiculous and inherently unfair to the nationals of the country welcoming them in their midst. |
You hit the nail on the head, Steve. They come all the way from Africa and expect Ireland to provide them with an intergrated education?!? Phooey. They're lucky Ireland is even giving them an education. |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
Both countries have a master race philosophy: they think their race is superior and all others are second best. They are homogenous |
This is so not true it is not even funny. I don't know any Irish person who even think there is even an irish race. Seriously that is idiotic.[/quote]
You're Irish, are you? And you don't even know what a Gael is? Or how glorious the Gaels were as magnificent fearless warriors, the match of anyone on earth? Even the women outclassed WWE superstars, but they fought naked? While they were writing songs and poetry they singlehandedly beat off allcomers until the British army so outnumbered them that it was only 10-1 odds that finally beat them? Wow. You should learn about the Gaelic, irish race. "1 Irishman is worth 10 Englishmen".
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| 5) Both countries are islands: (korea is virtually an island: no borders to any other country). isolated from the rest of the world. |
Ireland is right beside England, the greatest power in the world for a few hundred years.[/quote]
So? Does that make it not an island? You see islands get less cultural circulation than areas on the mainland. Its like the galapagos. They evolve separately and differently. The romans never reached Ireland: The Normans? Naah. You're thinking of England, 1066, right? Different country. The vikings? Haha. There was some, a very little viking influence. But not enough to mention.
No. By and large..Ireland has been geographically protected and isolated. Thats why the folks there are Celts. Not anglos saxons or normans or anything else. Celts. same as they were 2000 years back, basically.
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| Spurred on by money. |
Don't twist it. Of course every country wants money. however patriotism, competition is a huge impetus when it comes to a countrys economic drive. While Korea wants to outclass japan, their former colonial masters (Or at least catch them up), Ireland has a similar psychosis about England.
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| 7) Both countries don't like anything different from what they're used to |
I like korean women and spanish women, american football, cribbage ...maybe I should renounce my citizenship.[/quote]
Yes but you're no longer in Ireland, are you? Your mind has grown to embrace new stuff since you started living elsewhere. Just like Koreans who travel.
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| Unless you were an empire or have had mass immigration you have poor cultural heritage? |
Often true, yes...
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| Irish people didn't emigrate en masse to the west. They were already in the west, then emigrated en masse to the US, England and Australia. |
pedant. Point is, irish people have undertaken a massive and historid immigration to other lands. But how do they treat any foreigner who wants to live in their country? As a total outsider, is the answer. Same as korea. Homogenous society. Did U know the most inbred town in Europe is in Ireland? As I say..its a geographically isolated island.
So tell me JMO how is it that irish are welcomed everywhere in the world by hospitable other cultures, yet you can't even give a school place to black people who come to your country? How did that happen exactly? |
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nautilus
Joined: 26 Nov 2005
Location: Je jump, Tu jump, oui jump!
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| They're lucky Ireland is even giving them an education. |
Uh Duh..! The point is that they're not even giving them an education.
Go back and read the OP again.....  |
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bejarano-korea
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| They're lucky Ireland is even giving them an education. |
Uh Duh..! The point is that they're not even giving them an education.
Go back and read the OP again..... |
Har har har!
I come from a part of England where the majority of people are of Irish descent. 1 in 5 Londoners is of Irish descent, 1 in 4 Brummies is of Irish descent.
Anti Irish racism in the UK isn't ancient history. We don't have to go back 15 years to hear 'thick paddy' jokes on TV.
Now what we have got is something we thought would never happen and thats the Irish economy is booming and now the Irish don't want to share the wealth with anyone. This isn't isolated to Ireland, Spain has become
nation of emigration to a nation of immigration.
Spaniards emigrated to Argentina, the states, Veneuzuela and Germany till the 1970s, now the Spanish have a booming economy (like the Irish
via the EU) they are not welcoming of the immigrants they once were.
Spaniards soon forget they were once 'gallegos' just as immigrants to their country are 'sudacas'
It is a shame, a good indication of human nature of how people in poor societies can turn nasty when the shoe is on the other foot. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 8:57 am Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
You're Irish, are you? And you don't even know what a Gael is? Or how glorious the Gaels were as magnificent fearless warriors, the match of anyone on earth? Even the women outclassed WWE superstars, but they fought naked? While they were writing songs and poetry they singlehandedly beat off allcomers until the British army so outnumbered them that it was only 10-1 odds that finally beat them? Wow. You should learn about the Gaelic, irish race. "1 Irishman is worth 10 Englishmen".
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Yea I know about the stories that are taught kids. Like Cuchullain/setanta, the land of og etc. The vast majority of Irish people do not believe these stories are real.
You said that Irish people think they are a master race. I challenge you to find some kind of evidence that the majority of Irish people think there is even such a thing as an Irish/Gaelic race. Really the idea is ridiculous.
Alot of Irish people think of themselves as celts sure, but they are spread over most of western europe.
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| No. By and large..Ireland has been geographically protected and isolated. Thats why the folks there are Celts. Not anglos saxons or normans or anything else. Celts. same as they were 2000 years back, basically. |
Nope..we'll get back to this later.
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| Don't twist it. Of course every country wants money. however patriotism, competition is a huge impetus when it comes to a countrys economic drive. While Korea wants to outclass japan, their former colonial masters (Or at least catch them up), Ireland has a similar psychosis about England |
No really. Everything I know about pre celtic tiger Ireland tells me money would be enough. Sure we like to outdo England but I would hardly call it a psychosis. Ireland has massive unemployment and higher emigration than immigration for roughly 150 years. We needed the money.
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Yes but you're no longer in Ireland, are you? Your mind has grown to embrace new stuff since you started living elsewhere. Just like Koreans who travel.
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But Ireland is a country that has had mass emigration and a country where alot of people, especially young people travel in other countries. How does this tie in with the isolated, hates outsiders thing. I don't see how you can have both.
My generation will have to be stripped of Irish citizenship because it travels extensively..oh wait a minute, so will my da's generation since 2/3 of his brothers and sisters live in other countries...oh wait a minute so will his Da's generation as half of them died in England or America or Australia or New Zealand..
Alot of Irish pride is attributed to what they did in other countries for godsakes..
As far as the spanish women go, my serious spanish girlfriend was in Ireland. In university. I also met loads of Italian, Spanish, Polish, French kids every summer as my town had alot of English schools. That's how I know that Polish girls are fine and how I learned that I love the Spanish temperment.
Ireland also has pretty high tourism as you can't swing a cat in summer without hitting a german or american.
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The romans never reached Ireland: The Normans? Naah. You're thinking of England, 1066, right? Different country. The vikings? Haha. There was some, a very little viking influence. But not enough to mention.
No. By and large..Ireland has been geographically protected and isolated. Thats why the folks there are Celts. Not anglos saxons or normans or anything else. Celts. same as they were 2000 years back, basically.
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You are wrong. Normans were in Ireland, which is the reason we have names such as Bourke, Fitzwilliams, Fitzgerald etc. Really I don't think you actually lived in Ireland because these are popular surnames. Did you ever hear of William Butler Yeats or James Joyce.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Ireland
Above is a page on Norman Ireland. Educate thyself.
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The vikings? Haha. There was some, a very little viking influence. But not enough to mention.
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Waterford, Lomgford,Wexford...really look around you.
Here is a page on the history of Ireland in maps. It is on the 800AD start of the viking era. Below it is a list of Viking activity and settlements. Once again educate thyself.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~irlkik/ihm/ire800.htm
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| No. By and large..Ireland has been geographically protected and isolated. Thats why the folks there are Celts |
really? So England then would be very genetically diverse as it has been invaded by all these peoples. Read this..
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2005/07/0719_050719_britishgene.html
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| So tell me JMO how is it that irish are welcomed everywhere in the world by hospitable other cultures, yet you can't even give a school place to black people who come to your country? How did that happen exactly? |
We were not welcomed everywhere else in the world. That is besides the point anyway. I didn't deny there is racism in Ireland as there is. I was just ridiculing your more idiotic points. You seem to believe in Cuchullain for instance.
By any chance were you teaching 'history' to kindergarteners in Ireland and nobody told you that these were myths?
BTW where did you live in Ireland exactly? I'm not entirely sure I believe this story. I can think of many reasons to dislike Ireland but a gaelic master race...? mmmm seems fishy to me. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:10 pm Post subject: |
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| nautilus wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| They're lucky Ireland is even giving them an education. |
Uh Duh..! The point is that they're not even giving them an education.
Go back and read the OP again..... |
Really? So what did this part mean?
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| The children will attend a new, all-black school, a prospect that educators called disheartening. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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"Ever had the feeling you've been cheated"
John Lydon aka Johnny Rotten
No Blacks No Dogs No Irish |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 4:30 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| They're lucky Ireland is even giving them an education. |
Why are they lucky that Ireland is giving them an education? Nearly every single one of the kids left out is a Irish citizen....
| From the article wrote: |
| Almost all of the children are Irish-born and thus Irish citizens, under a law that existed until 2004. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
| They're lucky Ireland is even giving them an education. |
Why are they lucky that Ireland is giving them an education? Nearly every single one of the kids left out is a Irish citizen.... |
'Twas sarcasm.
But I'm sure Stevie will feel perfectly comfortable supporting this point of view. Or at least supporting the segregated school they're left with. And in 20 years time, blaming the students for not having higher academic accomplishments and not assimilating into Irish society. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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The children are granted citizenship at birth, which is common practice for the children of immigrants in developed nations.
My point, Huff-n-Puff, was that their parents were lucky to obtain citizenship under such lenient terms. Had they been required to study for a citizenship test perhaps they would have known what Irish law dictates in this matter. That they did not, however, does not remove the onus from them for failure to know the law. Citizens, whether naturalized or not, are expected to familiarize themselves with the laws; it never has been the government's responsibility to inform them.
As I said, religion permeates Irish culture. It's not our place to change that practice. We can call it into question if we wish or we can take the stance that all cultures have traits which people from other cultures find offensive.
As one who claims to be an "enlightened" occupant of the Left, I'm surprised you don't realize this. Actually, I'm not surprised; the Left only enforces this view of cultural preservation when a minority (re: people of color) are concerned.
Now go put your head in a bog. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Sep 05, 2007 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| As I said, religion permeates Irish culture. It's not our place to change that practice. We can call it into question if we wish or we can take the stance that all cultures have traits which people from other cultures find offensive. |
I'm not in the position to change their policy. So that line of reasoning is moot. Calling it into question is exactly what we should be doing. So what's your beef?
But please tell us how segregated schools benefit anyone. Based upon your experience as an educator and a black man.
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| As one who claims to be an "enlightened" occupant of the Left, I'm surprised you don't realize this. Actually, I'm not surprised; the Left only enforces this view of cultural preservation when a minority (re: people of color) are concerned. |
Maybe you haven't noticed the corollary? The right only notices when it is their culture that is being infringed upon. |
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