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HAHA! Hitchens schools a Christian (and expels a Muslim)
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ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:47 am Post subject:

mithridates wrote:

I guess that depends on the definition of God. For some people it would be enough for prove that the universe was created by something that existed before it, but for others not (because it would bring up the question of what created that thing that created the universe). Going farther along this sometimes leads to pantheism (this time I'm using the right term).

Never really understood pantheism, it does come across as semantics.
Why call this a god? Consciousness, sentience, intelligence from 'what we know' are complex products of biology. If you strip a god of these characteristics god just becomes another word for nature or the universe. A pantheistic god is no more a god than Eric Clapton. If I have misunderstood/misrepresented pantheism then please do correct me.

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:48 am Post subject:

itaewonguy wrote:

pastis wrote:

There is so much evidence and knowledge on this subject that most of us in this thread know, that you will never have - because you are too unintelligent and willfully ignorant.

Oh ok! So 5 billion people and I are unintelligent and willfully ignorant
Ohh ok!! You guys seem to know something all the rest of us don�t! Rolling Eyes

Then again you might be right! I haven�t been to school so I guess they teach that god doesn�t exist! And they prove to kids how it�s so! And then teach believing in god is a fantasy! Emmm I�m still curious though BOB!
America being the number one country in the world and all..
Why haven�t they changed their currency yet! I mean having IN GOD WE TRUST on there is pretty stupid! Don�t you think?? What kind of example are they showing? And why haven�t they passed laws to stop educating fantasy??
And Barrack OBAMA! Running for president!! A man who believes in god... JESUS... how could such an ignorant man be running for office?! What, he is that dumb he can�t read either... wow... so many rich and educated people all DUMB!! Billionaires, CEOS and then there is you!
A loser who hides here because you can�t hack it in the real world! Sits here are preaches his beliefs and then cusses when people don�t agree with him! Works in a Kindergarten teaching 4 years old how to spell!
And then calls the world ignorant and dumb! hahahahaha
So you even own a car??? Let alone a house!! Hahahahahaha
What a LOSER!!!

"Athiests think the world is stupid"

Quote:

There is so much evidence and knowledge on this subject that most of us in this thread know

you mean in which Athiests believe to be true!! BIG DIFFERENCE DORK!!
the biggest piece of evidence for the whole theory is missing!!!
chit even mind me too admits that!!
dont confuse personal belief with fact!!!

I don't think all christians are stupid (just the vast majority), but I know for a fact that you are. Likely most christians would agree that you are a moron regardless of your beliefs. Simply put, you are a failure, period. Mother nature was playing a cruel trick to even allow you to be conceived. There is nothing for you in this life, and really you ought to be put down like a dog.

5 billion people? Most of those are illiterate farmers and unskilled laborers with little or no education (like you) and know essentially nothing about the universe or ontology. They just live day to day trying to get enough food to eat, consumed with superstition; many probably still think the world is flat.

Anyway, bottom line here is that I tower above you. You are below me, my natural inferior; an intellectual gnat, whom with the the simple flick of my finger I do away with.

mithridates

Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:06 am Post subject:

ED209 wrote:

mithridates wrote:

I think that's where you sometimes get panentheism (which I think makes more sense if you want to believe in God):

Quote:

Panentheism (from Greek πᾶν (p�n) "all"; ἐν (en) "in"; and θεός (The�s) "God"; "all-in-God") is a belief system which posits that God exists and interpenetrates every part of nature, and timelessly extends beyond as well. Panentheism is distinguished from pantheism, which holds that God is synonymous with the material universe.[1]

I agree that a whole lot of universe is just a lot of universe. To postulate God you have to be talking about something fundamentally different.

Hm, this is an interesting video on panentheism:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-150936448344699981&q=quantum&time=1260000

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject:

mithridates wrote:

A theory should be able to be tested, but at the same time theories shouldn't be thrown out just because we can't test them *now*.

A theory *is* tested. A lot. A hypothesis either yet to be tested or not tested much.

mindmetoo

Joined: 02 Feb 2004

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 2:15 pm Post subject:

itaewonguy wrote:

Companionship??? No! I come here to get updates on current events!

So us low life ESL teachers are actually up on the news and you're not. Sorry, still not squaring. You've plain drummed out of your social circles, haven't you?

Underwaterbob

Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject:

As for there being something "beyond" the universe, there are particles whose behavior can be described much better mathematically when we assume they exist in more dimensions than just the three spatial and one temporal. This is part of what string theory comes from. God is one divided by zero: Undefined or infinity depending on how you look at it.

Stevie_B

Joined: 14 May 2008

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 5:57 pm Post subject:

Underwaterbob wrote:

As for there being something "beyond" the universe, there are particles whose behavior can be described much better mathematically when we assume they exist in more dimensions than just the three spatial and one temporal. This is part of what string theory comes from.

God is one divided by zero: Undefined or infinity depending on how you look at it.

Yes, that's exactly what God is - the plug for the gap in a very human system of knowledge; the pat response to an aporia.

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:50 pm Post subject:

ED209 wrote:

There are 5billion agnostics?

Anyway, wouldn't matter if 6billion atheists existed, it's an 'Argumentum ad populum'

no there are 5 billion people who believe in god though!
That�s my point! So when you express your opinion make it so!
That you are not sure but I believe it to be like this!!
You are no different to people believing in UFOS!! That�s what you choose to believe in without enough evidence to be 100% sure...
dont dont preach like you are right! being agnostic is the right choice!

Quote:

Since 88% of the people polled believed in UFOs, they must exist...
In a court of law, the jury vote by majority, therefore they will always make the correct decision.

Now you are just going too far!!!

Quote:

Arthur Conan Doyle believed in faeries, was he ignorant?

You tell me! Was he??

Quote:

Anyway 'ignorant man running for office', that's never happened before

So there you go.. What does it all mean!!???
It means the evidence is not out to declare a winner...
so you have the right to believe in what ever you want! others who disagree with you will call you stupid~
thats human nature!

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject:

pastis wrote:

[

5 billion people? Most of those are illiterate farmers and unskilled laborers with little or no education (like you) and know essentially nothing about the universe or ontology. They just live day to day trying to get enough food to eat, consumed with superstition; many probably still think the world is flat.

This just shows how dumb you are!!

Quote:

Anyway, bottom line here is that I tower above you. You are below me, my natural inferior; an intellectual gnat, whom with the the simple flick of my finger I do away with

Hahhahaha, IM not the one working for a kiddy hakwon!! Laughing

How�s your officetel?? Enjoy taking the BUS?? Hahahahaha
Hahhahahaha what a loser!!

mindmetoo wrote:

So us low life ESL teachers are actually up on the news and you're not. Sorry, still not squaring. You've plain drummed out of your social circles, haven't you?

IM not the one who said you are a low life! If I remember correctly the name calling started when I pointed you out and asked you to show me the proof! But you couldn�t so to avoid embarrassment you avoided the question and started to call names...

K, just admit it!! Your camp doesn�t have enough Evidence!! Now, hey IM all for science! And I hope one day they do get the results! But as of 2008
Their just isn�t enough evidence! But hey you go ahead and keep being a good advocate for Atheism! That�s your personal right! So I don�t blame you
I just consider you the same as a Christian! A man with a peronal belief to get him through life! HEY what ever you need to tell yourself K..
So good for you..
Wink

ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject:

itaewonguy wrote:

ED209 wrote:

There are 5billion agnostics?

Anyway, wouldn't matter if 6billion atheists existed, it's an 'Argumentum ad populum'

Why don't you agree with those 5billion?

Again you set up this strawman that myself or others have claimed certainty about there being no god. Dawkins, Hitchens and other posters here freely admit and have reminded you several time that you can never be 100% of anything. The fact you keep ignoring this shows there is no end to the depths of your retardation.

itaewonguy wrote:

Quote:

Since 88% of the people polled believed in UFOs, they must exist...
In a court of law, the jury vote by majority, therefore they will always make the correct decision.

Now you are just going too far!!!

So you can use he UFO analogy but I can't? I'm simply showing(not you because you obviously have zero comprehension skills) that the number of believers doesn't make things any more or less true.

itaewonguy wrote:

Quote:

Arthur Conan Doyle believed in faeries, was he ignorant?

You tell me! Was he??

Is Obama? Why isn't he agnostic?

Quote:

Anyway 'ignorant man running for office', that's never happened before

itaewonguy wrote:

It's religion that tries to claim a winner. Atheism simply points to a lack of belief, a lack of evidence, a lack of a winner. That without evidence extraordinary claims are highly unlikely to be true, but not necessarily impossible. Feel free to call me stupid and tell me what I really believe and why it's wrong. There is as ever no limit to your ability in failing to grasp the simplest of ideas. I say 'good day sir!!'

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 1:01 am Post subject:

ED209 wrote:

[

Again you set up this strawman that myself or others have claimed certainty about there being no god. Dawkins, Hitchens and other posters here freely admit and have reminded you several time that you can never be 100% of anything. The fact you keep ignoring this shows there is no end to the depths of your retardation.

'

no the fact that you keep entering into every religious thread on daves or any thread about god and start shoveling your beliefs down people�s throats and advocating as an extremists shows me that you take your beliefs beyond accepting that it�s not 100% certain! You truly believe it!!

That�s my point! I don�t care if you believe you originated from monkeys! Or you came from gods ASS!! All I am saying is don�t speak of such certainty when you post! You are too passionate about your beliefs!
You sound like a Mormon!!!

Quote:

So you can use he UFO analogy but I can't? I'm simply showing(not you because you obviously have zero comprehension skills) that the number of believers doesn't make things any more or less true.

I never said you can�t use it! I said now you are going too far!
Big difference..

Quote:

Obama? Why isn't he agnostic?

Simple because he believes in GOD! And with the evidence available today shows him that god is real!!
So either you or he is not judging the evidence properly!
Perhaps both of you are blinded by person beliefs! He wants god to be true!
You don�t want him to be true!!!
But your assumptions are personal choices!
And regarding evidence you both make claims! This leads us all the way back to my original argument with you and MIND ME TOO! Months ago
There is not enough evidence to declare a winner yet!! So all we have are personal choices with lack of evidence! If you wish to believe in the spaghetti monster go ahead! You want to believe you originated from monkey chit go ahead! Pull out a science fiction novel and believe what you want!! Or believe nothing.. I don�t care... what I am doing here is reminding you all, that Atheism is not the winner! And the evidence does not point to your camp as being closer to it! You have a scientific theory which flies better with your personal ideas! That�s all...

Quote:

Plleeeaasseee...
If you atheists were not so passionate about it you wouldn�t even bother trying to convince people! Atheists are on a quest to prove the world wrong! You calling victory and denouncing the church and ALLAH! Every chance you get! And not to mention when you attack theists you blow your horn with insults like they are so stupid for believing in a fairytale!
And I say to this! And what do you have!!!
Christians and Muslims just go to church and pray and go about their lives are worshippers and it turns the Atheists stomach! It makes Atheist crazy that they can be so simple and believe that!!
Then Theists go onto the defensive and attack when they are being attacked by Atheists!
Atheists are out to prove a point! Why do Atheists give a toss what others think?? Why not just go about your life and not worry about what 5 billion people are doing!!
I�ll tell you why! Because they believe something to be true! And they want to be heard!!
Never seen a bunch of Christians go out of their way to attack Atheists in Atheist forums! But man do you ever see Atheists joining up and having their say in Religious threads! It�s like they go out of their way to be heard

Quote:

Feel free to call me stupid and tell me what I really believe and why it's wrong. There is as ever no limit to your ability in failing to grasp the simplest of ideas.

The simplest ideas being what?? They you believe all Theists are stupid??
Come on let�s be honest! You have a belief system and you advocate for that belief! Anyone who doesn�t agree with you is stupid in your eyes!
misguided? uneducated? Call it what you want!
You root for your team! And you hate the opposing team that�s human nature!
I am Agnostic! My beliefs are both sides have strong arguments!
But there is no way to declare a winner yet! Both sides lack the most convincing materials! Until they are presented I take the correct judgment. I advocate for Evidence! And take my own personal choice also. But I don�t extremely advocate it!

ED209

Joined: 17 Oct 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:41 am Post subject:

ITG I've put my case forward. It's not an extremist one. I don't support a certainty principle. Your inability to comprehend simple questions and understand a person's view point is not worth the ulcer. Your ranting and wild assumptions clearly shows you do not understand any of the arguments put forward from any side. You are the one who has come here screaming your beliefs and telling everyone else with certainty they are wrong. Anyway it is my own fault for coming here and I can easily avoid such easy game as yourself. Every post you make embarrasses you to a new degree. Thanks for giving me a new found respect for all the theists here who have a basic command of the English language. My English lets me down sometimes, but I'm glad I'm not you. Please insert these(!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) where you see fit, and press enter after each fullstop if that helps you understand it. Maybe you need an adult to help you read it too.

itaewonguy

Joined: 25 Mar 2003

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:38 am Post subject:

ED209 wrote:

ITG I've put my case forward. It's not an extremist one. I don't support a certainty principle. Your inability to comprehend simple questions and understand a person's view point is not worth the ulcer. Your ranting and wild assumptions clearly shows you do not understand any of the arguments put forward from any side.
Thanks for giving me a new found respect for all the theists here who have a basic command of the English language. My English lets me down sometimes, but I'm glad I'm not you.

.

Blar blar blar... what a cop out!!
So what do you want to do?? Should we all just discuss the possibility of a god or not until we die?? Should we all just repeat ourselves with the same evidence for the next 100 years??? same conclusions different people!?
You enjoy debating about the possibilities of a god on and on with the same evidence. Then go ahead!
if you want to debate! why does it always have to be the same ole discussions over and over and over!

You say I make assumptions?? And what would that be?
IM not that one saying god doesn�t exist! You are! That�s an assumption!
Perhaps you need to look up the word!!!

This argument is not about my English skills, it�s about Atheists not having any ground to stand on with their assumptions! But if you wish to discuss the same old boring topics over and over again then go ahead! I already know everything you do! And everything minds me too knows... I knew all that stuff when I was 12 years old listening to my grandfather!
If you have something new to show me perhaps you can be so kind to link me to it. But if the Atheist movement are just going to talk the same drivel they have been for the past 100 years then IM not interested!!!
Been there done that! And that�s why I am an agnostic!
Because frankly! I read between the lines! You guys just like to make assumptions to try and sound like you know something! Might be able to fool some people with that! But it�s just smoke and mirrors!!
so run along now and be a good Dawkin misfit!

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:42 am Post subject:

itaewonguy wrote:

pastis wrote:

This just shows how dumb you are!!

The fact that I am more knowlegable than well over 5 billion people (not to mention around 5 billion times smarter than you) makes me dumb? No. It doesn't.

Quote:

Anyway, bottom line here is that I tower above you. You are below me, my natural inferior; an intellectual gnat, whom with the the simple flick of my finger I do away with

Hahhahaha, IM not the one working for a kiddy hakwon!! Laughing

How�s your officetel?? Enjoy taking the BUS?? Hahahahaha
Hahhahahaha what a loser!!

Hmm... that's really a lot of 'hahas'. I bet you were sobbing desperately when you wrote all that, weren't you... I know it hurts being as feeble and unloved as you are. It's gotta hurt all the more knowing that I am your natural superior; you are thwarted and it fills you with envy and even hatred. But it can't be helped, it's just what you are, and it won't get better for you. Not ever. You are simply f-cked.

There is one very easy solution, however. Just take out that exacto knife in your desk, do the right thing, and you'll be free! Free from your astounding ignorance and degradation. Forever. You won't regret it. Wink

So have at 'er.

Quote:

mindmetoo wrote:

So us low life ESL teachers are actually up on the news and you're not. Sorry, still not squaring. You've plain drummed out of your social circles, haven't you?

Everyone hates you. You simply can't make an impact on here, so you may as well quit posting, leave daves, and get out the exacto knife asap.

Underwaterbob

Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:

This thread is beginning to remind me of this:

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