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| When will the Iran War start? |
| It has already begun |
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13% |
[ 8 ] |
| Before Election Day 2008 |
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15% |
[ 9 ] |
| On Election Day 2008 |
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0% |
[ 0 ] |
| After Election Day 2008 |
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20% |
[ 12 ] |
| Never |
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50% |
[ 30 ] |
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| Total Votes : 59 |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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 Posted: Thu Mar 15, 2012 8:16 am Post subject: |
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OK a couple of news snippets here...
Iran's Christian pastor alive, execution looming
By Lisa Daftari
Published February 27
The Christian pastor sentenced to death in Iran last week for leaving Islam and converting to Christianity was confirmed alive as of early Sunday, sources close to his attorneys told Fox News.
Dozens of human rights groups along with Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, 89 members of Congress, and leaders from the European Union, France, Great Britain, Mexico and Germany have condemned Iran for arresting Nadarkhani and have called for his quick release.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/02/27/irans-christian-pastor-alive-execution-looming/#ixzz1pCdDW63F
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What would an attack on Israel look like?
By Uriel Heilman � February 8, 2012
A video called "The Last Day" that imagines what a future attack on Israel might look like is going viral, with more than 100,000 views since it was uploaded 10 days ago.
http://blogs.jta.org/telegraph/article/2012/02/08/3091578/what-would-an-attack-on-israel-look-like-video |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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Barack Obama Prepares for War Footing:
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Last Friday, March 16, President Barack Obama may have quietly placed the United States on a war preparedness footing, perhaps in anticipation of an outbreak of war between Israel, the West, and Iran. A newly-propounded Executive Order, titled "National Defense Resources Preparedness," renews and updates the president's power to take control of all civil energy supplies, including oil and natural gas, control and restrict all civil transportation, which is almost 97 percent dependent upon oil; and even provides the option to re-enable a draft in order to achieve both the military and non-military demands of the country, according to a simple reading of the text. The Executive Order was published on the White House website.
The timing of the Order -- with little fanfare -- could not be explained. Opinions among the very first bloggers on the purpose of the unexpected Executive Order run the gamut from the confused to the absurd. None focus on the obvious sudden need for such a pronouncement: oil and its potential for imminent interruption. |
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/edwin-black/obama-national-defense-resources-preparedness_b_1359715.html |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Mar 19, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Ineverlie&I'malwaysri wrote: |
From a personal email:
BUILD FEB. 4 EMERGENCY DEMONSTRATION TO STOP U.S. WAR AGAINST IRAN
NO WAR! NO SANCTIONS! NO INTERVENTION! NO ASSASSINATIONS
A broad spectrum of U.S.-based anti-imperialist and anti-war organizations, including the IAC, agreed on a Jan. 17 conference call to hold coordinated protests across the country on Saturday, Feb. 4. The demands will be: �No war, no sanctions, no intervention, no assassinations against Iran.�
The ad-hoc group that took part in the call decided that although there are only two weeks to organize, it will invite anti-war forces around the world to join in to make this emergency protest a global day of action.
All agreed on the need to stop U.S. imperialism and/or Israel from launching a military attack on Iran. There was also a consensus that the new sanctions President Barack Obama signed into law on Dec. 31 -- with the goal of breaking the Iranian central bank -- were themselves an act of war aimed at the Iranian people. The political activists on the call raised the danger of a wider war should fighting break out in or around Iran.
While the organizations involved had varied assessments of the Iranian government, they all saw any intervention from U.S. imperialism in the Southwest Asian country as a threat to the entire region and to peace. Some of the people on the call who are originally from Iran and who were in touch with family and friends there conveyed the Iranian people�s anger at the recent assassination of a young scientist.
There was agreement to make �no assassinations� one of the demands to show solidarity with the Iranian population as well as to condemn the U.S. and its allies for criminal activities against Iran and its people.
As of Jan. 19, the organizations that called the actions or endorsed later included the United National Anti-War Coalition (UNAC), the International Action Center (IAC), SI! Solidarity with Iran, Refugee Apostolic Catholic Church, Workers World Party, World Can�t Wait, American Iranian Friendship Committee, ANSWER Coalition, Antiwar.com, Peace of the Action, ComeHomeAmerica.us, St. Pete for Peace, Women Against Military Madness (WAMM), Defenders for Freedom, Justice & Equality-Virginia, WESPAC Foundation, Peace Action Maine, Occupy Myrtle Beach, Minnesota Peace Action Coalition, Twin Cities Peace Campaign and Bail Out the People Movement (BOPM).
Individual endorsers include authors David Swanson, �When the World Outlawed War,� and Phil Wilayto, �In Defense of Iran: Notes from a U.S. Peace Delegation�s Journey through the Islamic Republic�; and U.N. Human Rights Award winner Ramsey Clark, a former U.S. attorney general.
The list is expected to grow steadily as word spreads. Right now people can follow developments on the Facebook link:
No War On Iran: National Day of Action Feb 4, http://www.facebook.com/events/214341975322807/.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Donate to support actions in solidarity with Iran.
Visit StopWarOnIran.org
International Action Center
c/o Solidarity Center
55 West 17th St 5C
New York, NY 10011
1-212-633-6646
www.iacenter.org
email: [email protected] | En Espa�ol: [email protected] |
I'm guessing that didn't work too well...seeing as it is now March.
Oh well better luck next time guys. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I'm guessing that didn't work too well...seeing as it is now March.
Oh well better luck next time guys. |
Americans appetite for war will return as soon as their economy bounces back. Which it is now doing... |
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akcrono
Joined: 11 Mar 2010
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| Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2012 4:38 am Post subject: |
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| Julius wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
I'm guessing that didn't work too well...seeing as it is now March.
Oh well better luck next time guys. |
Americans appetite for war will return as soon as their economy bounces back. Which it is now doing... |
I really don't think "Americans" have an "appetite for war". |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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Reggie
Joined: 21 Sep 2009
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| Posted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 2:31 am Post subject: |
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| With Ron Paul receiving more donations from active duty military members than all other presidential candiates combined, including Obama, it appears the only Americans with an appetite for war are the John Bolton types, AIPAC members, and various others who will be sitting on their couches during the war. Very few Americans want to fight in the war. It's going to be a bigger embarrassment than Afghanistan. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:57 pm Post subject: Israeli general: 'Rational' Iranian leaders not pushing nucl |
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Israel's top general said Iran is led by "very rational people" and doesn't appear poised to build a nuclear bomb that would threaten his nation.
Iran "is going step by step to the place where it will be able to decide whether to manufacture a nuclear bomb," Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz told Israel's Haaretz newspaper in Wednesday editions. "It hasn't yet decided whether to go the extra mile."
The head of Israeli Defense Forces set a different tone than that of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who suggested to CNN on Tuesday that time is running out for Western sanctions on Iran to have a meaningful effect on Tehran's nuclear program.
The sanctions "are certainly taking a bite out of the Iranian economy," Netanyahu said in an interview broadcast Tuesday on CNN's "OutFront." But "they haven't rolled back the Iranian program -- or even stopped it -- by one iota."
"I hope that changes, but so far, I can tell you, the centrifuges are spinning," he said. "They were spinning before the talks began recently with Iran, they were spinning during the talks, they're spinning as we speak."
Key world powers met with Iran earlier this month about Tehran's intentions for its nuclear program and announced that the next meeting would take place in late May. Iran maintains it is not planning to build a bomb.
Israel's top general said Iran is led by "very rational people" and doesn't appear poised to build a nuclear bomb that would threaten his nation.
Iran "is going step by step to the place where it will be able to decide whether to manufacture a nuclear bomb," Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz told Israel's Haaretz newspaper in Wednesday editions. "It hasn't yet decided whether to go the extra mile."
The head of Israeli Defense Forces set a different tone than that of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, who suggested to CNN on Tuesday that time is running out for Western sanctions on Iran to have a meaningful effect on Tehran's nuclear program.
The sanctions "are certainly taking a bite out of the Iranian economy," Netanyahu said in an interview broadcast Tuesday on CNN's "OutFront." But "they haven't rolled back the Iranian program -- or even stopped it -- by one iota."
"I hope that changes, but so far, I can tell you, the centrifuges are spinning," he said. "They were spinning before the talks began recently with Iran, they were spinning during the talks, they're spinning as we speak."
See more on the Netanyahu interview
Key world powers met with Iran earlier this month about Tehran's intentions for its nuclear program and announced that the next meeting would take place in late May. Iran maintains it is not planning to build a bomb.
Netanyahu: Iran sanctions a mixed bag
Netanyahu: 'I could deliver' peace deal
Iranian Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, according to Gantz, likely won't build a bomb if he believes his facilities are vulnerable to Israeli attack.
"I think the Iranian leadership is composed of very rational people," Gantz told Haaretz. "But I agree that such a capability, in the hands of Islamic fundamentalists who at particular moments could make different calculations, is dangerous."
The chief of staff said the military is preparing for all possible scenarios.
The United States and European nations have imposed tough economic sanctions on Iran in an effort to pressure it into accepting international demands to restrict its nuclear program.
"If the sanctions are going to work, they better work soon," Netanyahu said on CNN.
Iran insists that its nuclear program is for energy and medical purposes. U.N. and Western leaders suspect it of having military aims, including a possible nuclear weapon.
Last month, the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, noted what it called a sharp and troubling increase in Iran's uranium enrichment capabilities.
The talks with Tehran this month involved the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council -- the United States, France, Russia, China, and Britain -- as well as Germany.
That group has spearheaded diplomatic efforts to persuade Iran to rein in its nuclear program, but Israel has criticized the initiative as giving too much ground to Tehran and demanded that it stop all enrichment activities.
Netanyahu said that if the combination of sanctions, diplomacy and "other pressures" succeeds in stopping Iran's nuclear program, "I will be the happiest person in the world."
Netanyahu: 'I could deliver' peace deal
Iranian Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, according to Gantz, likely won't build a bomb if he believes his facilities are vulnerable to Israeli attack.
"I think the Iranian leadership is composed of very rational people," Gantz told Haaretz. "But I agree that such a capability, in the hands of Islamic fundamentalists who at particular moments could make different calculations, is dangerous."
The chief of staff said the military is preparing for all possible scenarios.
The United States and European nations have imposed tough economic sanctions on Iran in an effort to pressure it into accepting international demands to restrict its nuclear program.
"If the sanctions are going to work, they better work soon," Netanyahu said on CNN.
Iran insists that its nuclear program is for energy and medical purposes. U.N. and Western leaders suspect it of having military aims, including a possible nuclear weapon.
Last month, the International Atomic Energy Agency, the U.N. nuclear watchdog, noted what it called a sharp and troubling increase in Iran's uranium enrichment capabilities.
The talks with Tehran this month involved the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council -- the United States, France, Russia, China, and Britain -- as well as Germany.
That group has spearheaded diplomatic efforts to persuade Iran to rein in its nuclear program, but Israel has criticized the initiative as giving too much ground to Tehran and demanded that it stop all enrichment activities.
Netanyahu said that if the combination of sanctions, diplomacy and "other pressures" succeeds in stopping Iran's nuclear program, "I will be the happiest person in the world."
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 6:15 am Post subject: |
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That youtube link is hardly a credible source (comic balloon type quotes?) really?
And it was taken out of context.
Those EXACT words may not have been said...but words similar to that effect have been said and more than once
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/101999
| Quote: |
Iranian president Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reiterated Iran's goal of "wiping Israel off the map." Speaking at a conference of visiting heads of Arab terrorist groups operating in areas under Palestinian Authority control, Ahmadinejad said, "Whether you like it or not, the Zionist regime is on the road to being eliminated."
Once again expressing his doubt as to whether the Holocaust happened, Ahmadinejad said that, although the Holocaust�s occurrence is "open to doubt, there is no doubt about the holocaust being carried out [by Israel] against the Palestinians." He went on to call upon Israelis to return to the countries from which their ancestors emigrated. "I tell the governments who support Zionism to allow the migrants [to] return to their countries of origin. If you think you owe them something [because of the Holocaust], give them some of your land," he said. "The Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm." |
(bolding mine) |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2012 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Not that I really want to get too involved in this debate... but I can't help but point out that:
| Quote: |
| "the Zionist regime is on the road to being eliminated." |
and
| Quote: |
| "the Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm" |
hardly equals
| Quote: |
| "wiping Israel off the map." |
One can be vehemently against the Israeli government/military without being against Israel. It may or may not be the case that the Iranian government wishes harm on the Israeli people, but it cannot be deduced from that quotation. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| visitorq wrote: |
Not that I really want to get too involved in this debate... but I can't help but point out that:
| Quote: |
| "the Zionist regime is on the road to being eliminated." |
and
| Quote: |
| "the Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm" |
hardly equals
| Quote: |
| "wiping Israel off the map." |
One can be vehemently against the Israeli government/military without being against Israel. It may or may not be the case that the Iranian government wishes harm on the Israeli people, but it cannot be deduced from that quotation. |
| Quote: |
| He went on to call upon Israelis to return to the countries from which their ancestors immigrated. |
Assuming that this were to take place how long do you think there would be a country called Israel in the Middle East?
Being 'wiped off the map' does not always translate into brutal military conquest. But if Israelis were to leave then Israel would be 'wiped off the map' (probably renamed Palestine or something).
It may not be deduced that the Iranian government wishes harm on the Israeli people (although they've shown scant regard for their welfare in the past) but it is certainly the case that they don't want the Israelis there. And whether by military conquest or voluntary departure they want the country currently known as Israel to cease existing. |
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visitorq
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:19 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Quote: |
| He went on to call upon Israelis to return to the countries from which their ancestors immigrated. |
Assuming that this were to take place how long do you think there would be a country called Israel in the Middle East?
Being 'wiped off the map' does not always translate into brutal military conquest. But if Israelis were to leave then Israel would be 'wiped off the map' (probably renamed Palestine or something).
It may not be deduced that the Iranian government wishes harm on the Israeli people (although they've shown scant regard for their welfare in the past) but it is certainly the case that they don't want the Israelis there. And whether by military conquest or voluntary departure they want the country currently known as Israel to cease existing. |
Again, whether one thinks Israelis belong in that region or not, "calling on them" to leave does not imply "wiping them off the map" (which, it seems to me, would imply brutal military conquest and even genocide).
Anyway, I hate taking sides in this sort of debate (since I frankly dislike both countries' governments), but I always did find that particular quote to be irksome, since as far as I can tell it is either out of context, or an outright mistranslation, and just something inflammatory to be used by war hawks in the West who want to portray the Iranian regime as a serious and imminent threat, hell-bent on destroying Israel at all costs or something... |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Mon Apr 30, 2012 4:37 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| visitorq wrote: |
Not that I really want to get too involved in this debate... but I can't help but point out that:
| Quote: |
| "the Zionist regime is on the road to being eliminated." |
and
| Quote: |
| "the Zionist regime is a rotten, dried tree that will be eliminated by one storm" |
hardly equals
| Quote: |
| "wiping Israel off the map." |
One can be vehemently against the Israeli government/military without being against Israel. It may or may not be the case that the Iranian government wishes harm on the Israeli people, but it cannot be deduced from that quotation. |
| Quote: |
| He went on to call upon Israelis to return to the countries from which their ancestors immigrated. |
Assuming that this were to take place how long do you think there would be a country called Israel in the Middle East?
Being 'wiped off the map' does not always translate into brutal military conquest. But if Israelis were to leave then Israel would be 'wiped off the map' (probably renamed Palestine or something).
It may not be deduced that the Iranian government wishes harm on the Israeli people (although they've shown scant regard for their welfare in the past) but it is certainly the case that they don't want the Israelis there. And whether by military conquest or voluntary departure they want the country currently known as Israel to cease existing. |
What they want to do isn't really very important as compared to what they are willing to do.
Firstly, one has to consider that Ahmadinejad is not the be all end all of Iranian politics, which is composed of different competing factions.
Secondly, I don't put tons of faith in what political leaders from any country say, but if you had to take one Iranian leader at their word, it should be this guy. As the supreme ruler, he far outranks Ahmadinejad, and will be around long after the president is gone.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sgJbU0YW6kY
"The Iranian nation has never pursued and will never pursue nuclear weapons," said Ayatollah Khamenei.
"There is no doubt that the decision makers in the countries opposing us know well that Iran is not after nuclear weapons because the Islamic Republic, logically, religiously and theoretically, considers the possession of nuclear weapons a grave sin and believes the proliferation of such weapons is senseless, destructive and dangerous."
Thirdly, the Iranian government would have to be suicidal to use a nuclear weapons as they surely know Isreal and or the U.S. would respond with massive force. Even the head of the IDF says so.
"Israel's top general said Iran is led by "very rational people" and doesn't appear poised to build a nuclear bomb that would threaten his nation.
Iran "is going step by step to the place where it will be able to decide whether to manufacture a nuclear bomb," Chief of Staff Lt. Gen. Benny Gantz told Israel's Haaretz newspaper in Wednesday editions. "It hasn't yet decided whether to go the extra mile."
http://articles.cnn.com/2012-04-25/middleeast/world_meast_israel-iran_1_nuclear-program-energy-and-medical-purposes-nuclear-watchdog?_s=PM:MIDDLEEAST
Lastly, the direct negations with Iran are going better than anyone, including me, would have thought.
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/world/middleeast/chances-of-iran-strike-receding-us-officials-say.html
So, all in all what one idiot president says doesn't mean much compared to the facts on the ground.
I'll leave with what the former leader of Isreal has to say about people outside of Israel, notably hawkish American Jews, who are calling for the strike.
�As a concerned Israeli citizen who lives in the state of Israel with his family and all of his children and grandchildren,� he said, �I love very much the courage of those who live 10,000 miles away from the state of Israel and are ready that we will make every possible mistake that will cost lives of Israelis.�
http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/30/world/middleeast/olmert-ex-premier-of-israel-assails-netanyahu-on-iran.html |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Tue May 01, 2012 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
Firstly, one has to consider that Ahmadinejad is not the be all end all of Iranian politics, which is composed of different competing factions.
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Exactly. |
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