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sbp59
Joined: 01 Apr 2009
Location: Somewhere in SK
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 Posted: Sun Apr 15, 2012 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
Hmm, I'm an American and I like my country. True story. I think in most ways it is demonstrably superior to here.
But still, that doesn't translate into a) being ignorant of the larger world; or b) thinking my country is better in areas where it demonstrably fails [such as math education, public health, or income inequality]; OR c) refusing to give Korea, or anywhere, credit where it is due. Sorry, Steelrails. Sorry, soonmin.
The first time I got on a KTX I knew it was 100% better than any train in America. I've ridden a lot of Amtrak, and it's not so bad as it's imagined--often quite good in fact, but in no way does it match Korean service, because the Koreans have made the investments to get something world-class and keep it there, and kept their projects out of partisan politics. They deserve great admiration for this and from this American, at least, they get it. We could learn a lot from them in terms of passenger rail and infrastructure in general.
There are quite a lot of others, actually. Incheon is the best airport I've ever seen, better than any in America.
Korean students, even in middle school, are often kind and sweet in a way rarely seen in the West. I wish ours were a bit more innocent and somewhat less 'hardened.'
I'm no basher. I see things with an accurate eye, or I strive to. I have no interest in puffing up a place nor in tearing it apart without reason. I have no investment here, no links, no deference. I don't care enough about it to hate it.
I'm just a contractor. The stupidest thing any newbie here does is ever to forget that. |
Good post. |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| sbp59 wrote: |
| Modernist wrote: |
Hmm, I'm an American and I like my country. True story. I think in most ways it is demonstrably superior to here.
But still, that doesn't translate into a) being ignorant of the larger world; or b) thinking my country is better in areas where it demonstrably fails [such as math education, public health, or income inequality]; OR c) refusing to give Korea, or anywhere, credit where it is due. Sorry, Steelrails. Sorry, soonmin.
The first time I got on a KTX I knew it was 100% better than any train in America. I've ridden a lot of Amtrak, and it's not so bad as it's imagined--often quite good in fact, but in no way does it match Korean service, because the Koreans have made the investments to get something world-class and keep it there, and kept their projects out of partisan politics. They deserve great admiration for this and from this American, at least, they get it. We could learn a lot from them in terms of passenger rail and infrastructure in general.
There are quite a lot of others, actually. Incheon is the best airport I've ever seen, better than any in America.
Korean students, even in middle school, are often kind and sweet in a way rarely seen in the West. I wish ours were a bit more innocent and somewhat less 'hardened.'
I'm no basher. I see things with an accurate eye, or I strive to. I have no interest in puffing up a place nor in tearing it apart without reason. I have no investment here, no links, no deference. I don't care enough about it to hate it.
I'm just a contractor. The stupidest thing any newbie here does is ever to forget that. |
Good post. |
yep, I agree 100% with this. It helps to be able to put things in perspective. If you were living in San Fran or somewhere on a 6 figure salary and have always known good fortune, Korea may suck for you but it depends on how closely you follow steelrails' list too. A true professional would know what he/she was signing up for. A trust-fund brat wouldn't necessarily. If on the contrary, you had a difficult time of it prior to arriving (again, subject to list) then you might appreciate things more here. I had to learn to appreciate Korea myself. It's far from perfect like anywhere else, but at no point did I ever expect it to be a cake walk, or look down on Korean society. |
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sojusucks
Joined: 31 May 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| Are university educated people this naive? I said some things as a newb but nothing quite this bad. |
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Weigookin74
Joined: 26 Oct 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:58 pm Post subject: |
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"Really? Kimchi will cure AIDS?"
Ah, niave newbies.... |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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| sojusucks wrote: |
| Are university educated people this naive? I said some things as a newb but nothing quite this bad. |
Must be fails of critical thinking, perhaps the fault of their education system. |
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rchristo10
Joined: 14 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Most of the ones I've met say odd things like, "I'll only be here for a year." |
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hiamnotcool
Joined: 06 Feb 2012
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| pegasus64128 wrote: |
To get back on topic:
I believe Americans (US) are the most noob-like in general. It's just my opinion and there will be people who disagree but that's how I feel.
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This is the part where I am supposed to sound like the Newb from the USA and go into the following....
"I'm sorry about those other Americans, but keep in mind the USA is a big, diverse country, and not everyone is like them. I am actually exceptional in that I am from the USA and I recgonize that we can learn a lot from Canada about XXXX and S Korea about XXXX and Country A about XXXX, etc etc etc."
(note: America can refer to the continent, so I usually say USA, not America)
Then the reply
"Wow, yeah you aren't like most other Americans I meet. You really seem to grasp how we feel about you. Actually there are some things I like about America, like XXXX, but I still get frustrated about XXXX"
Then the American
"I know, I know, but we are changing, things are changing, I hope one day we can fix all of our problems, and really, sincerely...from the bottom of my heart....I am sorry for being an American."
This can go on for hours, the anti-american and the self loathing- american bask in their self righteous understanding of each other's ignorance.
As an American, I run into this all the time, it is one of the quintessential Newbi in Korea conversations.
After being here for about 3 years, I apologize to anyone in our immediate vicinity that may get hit with some verbal shrapnel, but I typically just go into a rant about igloos and polar bears and hope the open-minded Canadian will go find someone else to carry out this obligatory ritual with him/her (even if she's hot!). |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
| pegasus64128 wrote: |
To get back on topic:
I believe Americans (US) are the most noob-like in general. It's just my opinion and there will be people who disagree but that's how I feel.
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This is the part where I am supposed to sound like the Newb from the USA and go into the following....
"I'm sorry about those other Americans, but keep in mind the USA is a big, diverse country, and not everyone is like them. I am actually exceptional in that I am from the USA and I recgonize that we can learn a lot from Canada about XXXX and S Korea about XXXX and Country A about XXXX, etc etc etc."
(note: America can refer to the continent, so I usually say USA, not America)
Then the reply
"Wow, yeah you aren't like most other Americans I meet. You really seem to grasp how we feel about you. Actually there are some things I like about America, like XXXX, but I still get frustrated about XXXX"
Then the American
"I know, I know, but we are changing, things are changing, I hope one day we can fix all of our problems, and really, sincerely...from the bottom of my heart....I am sorry for being an American."
This can go on for hours, the anti-american and the self loathing- american bask in their self righteous understanding of each other's ignorance.
As an American, I run into this all the time, it is one of the quintessential Newbi in Korea conversations.
After being here for about 3 years, I apologize to anyone in our immediate vicinity that may get hit with some verbal shrapnel, but I typically just go into a rant about igloos and polar bears and hope the open-minded Canadian will go find someone else to carry out this obligatory ritual with him/her (even if she's hot!). |
You mentioned you've been here about 3 years, and your post seems to indicate someone whose at least reasonably open-minded and non-newb-like so what's your point?
Do you want a pat on the back for not being a newb? Ok then, a *sincere pat on the back* from me for what it's worth or indeed not worth.
Also, I agree that it's newbie sounding to apologize on behalf of your country (as they delude themselves into thinking they matter to their country) , especially if you are a newb, as it's usually insincere imo.
Your response is the best kind and is similar to the kind of one my American buddy would give. |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:04 pm Post subject: |
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| hiamnotcool wrote: |
This can go on for hours, the anti-american and the self loathing- american bask in their self righteous understanding of each other's ignorance.
As an American, I run into this all the time, it is one of the quintessential Newbi in Korea conversations.
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Why do some Americans feel the need to apologize for the ignorance of other Americans? I don't feel Americans are special in ignorance. I've met plenty of snobby Europeans and Canadians. The fact that "so many" of them seem to feel superior to Americans makes me feel they're not any better. |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| as an American I feel the need to apologize to just about every country in the world, and some, twice over... |
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fermentation
Joined: 22 Jun 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:23 pm Post subject: |
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| luckylady wrote: |
| as an American I feel the need to apologize to just about every country in the world, and some, twice over... |
Why? |
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rabidcake
Joined: 10 Aug 2009
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
| as an American I feel the need to apologize to just about every country in the world, and some, twice over... |
Why? |
The topic of America and how American people are never seems to come up that often for me. Maybe I have other topics to talk about? Talking about people from my country and making big and broad generalizations doesn't seem like a good chat topic. |
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Modernist
Joined: 23 Mar 2011
Location: The 90s
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Talking about people from my country and making big and broad generalizations doesn't seem like a good chat topic. |
It's not, unless you have an agenda.
I've said this before on these forums. There's a certain type of American, often but not exclusively self-described as 'progressive', who feels a need to differentiate themselves through insults and obnoxious apologizing about their background. As in, 'I'm not like THOSE PEOPLE.' Not they have ever really met THOSE PEOPLE, but they are quite sure about just how they think and act and behave and so on [it seems they imagine that all Americans are mass, unthinking consumers of Fox News], and boy, they could not be more different than that.
They are enlightened. They know how things really are. They see through the BS. They don't take things at face value. In fact, did you know that...[it used to be, at least: insert anti-Bush sentiment/they were against the war/they know what REALLY happened on 9.11/they aren't religious at all and/or are practicing Buddhists and/or are actually thinking of converting to Islam].
They are the same ones who feel the need to apologize for their country when abroad. Why? They derive some pathetic sense of identity--as 'better', more thoughtful, more insightful--from doing so. Just like people from the coasts who talk about 'flyover country' in America. Pathetic. Tells more about them than about anyone else. |
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pegasus64128
Joined: 20 Aug 2011
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Modernist wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Talking about people from my country and making big and broad generalizations doesn't seem like a good chat topic. |
It's not, unless you have an agenda.
I've said this before on these forums. There's a certain type of American, often but not exclusively self-described as 'progressive', who feels a need to differentiate themselves through insults and obnoxious apologizing about their background. As in, 'I'm not like THOSE PEOPLE.' Not they have ever really met THOSE PEOPLE, but they are quite sure about just how they think and act and behave and so on [it seems they imagine that all Americans are mass, unthinking consumers of Fox News], and boy, they could not be more different than that.
They are enlightened. They know how things really are. They see through the BS. They don't take things at face value. In fact, did you know that...[it used to be, at least: insert anti-Bush sentiment/they were against the war/they know what REALLY happened on 9.11/they aren't religious at all and/or are practicing Buddhists and/or are actually thinking of converting to Islam].
They are the same ones who feel the need to apologize for their country when abroad. Why? They derive some pathetic sense of identity--as 'better', more thoughtful, more insightful--from doing so. Just like people from the coasts who talk about 'flyover country' in America. Pathetic. Tells more about them than about anyone else. |
I completely agree. I find apologists in any form to be annoying, condescending, and almost completely deluded.
It's simple really. All you have to do is be yourself. If that just happens to be a douche that thinks he/she is important enough to be apologizing on others' behalf; OR someone who is deluded into thinking their country is a shining beacon when it's not, then that's fine too.
I stay clear of either of the above, and I hope they stay clear of me too  |
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luckylady
Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Location: u.s. of occupied territories
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| Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 11:37 pm Post subject: |
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| fermentation wrote: |
| luckylady wrote: |
| as an American I feel the need to apologize to just about every country in the world, and some, twice over... |
Why? |
if you have to ask, then it would do no good to explain.
in the meanwhile, I think anyone who feels "proud" of their country, whichever it may be, is holding on to a false sense of security and is in a state of denial. borders come and go; none of us have control over our place of birth and what happens to a country as a whole is dependent on many factors.
fyi, I think it's naive for anyone anywhere to claim pride in being from a particular country.
it's the individual who counts, nationalism is a cosmic joke. |
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