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Koreans work 2000 hours a month?
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's well known that Korean assault statistics are skewed because of the practice of blood money. What "should" be filed as a police report is held off until police mediate a settlement. This is often done in various criminal instances here.

So, with that knowledge in mind, and how many people I see working overtime but not getting paid, I am extremely suspicious of working hour stats here.

If I can't trust the stats in one area, why should I trust them in others - especially if they run counter to my experiences?
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KimchiNinja



Joined: 01 May 2012
Location: Gangnam

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Captain Corea wrote:
KimchiNinja wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
I have no idea how efficient farmers, KFC workers, or room salon girls are here...


Oh, the girls are quite efficient. Cool


I was wondering who would jump on that first. lol


...I have to fake like I enjoy super hot chicks sitting on my lap in order to close the KR deals. It's work.
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maximmm



Joined: 01 Feb 2008

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 6:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can see that this vile thread full of lies has turned into yet another attack on the purity of the Korean land and the practices of its people. The leader of our apologist camp, SteelRails, has already made many great points - but I can see that many of you have failed to comprehend their true meaning - and this tells me that the IQ of the foreigners that dwell in our country (we are Korean through the link to our pure blooded Korean wives).

Many here quote research papers and 'facts' from the liberal and very biased western media. The true fact, however, is that here in Korea, our people work no more than the people in the west. Indeed, I'll bring you an example - Korean teachers. On average they work 8 to 9 hours a day - 5 days a week, which brings their average hours to 40-45 per week. The vacation for our teachers lasts anywhere from 4 to 12 weeks a year, by far more than an average vacation in the civilized western countries (not counting France and Germany - the communist states!).

In fact, I would venture to say that most of you know fully well the duration of the Korean teachers' working hours and the duration of their vacations. To think that you would argue against this COLD fact is preposterous.

Many people bring up the example of factory workers in Korea, but we all know that most of those factory workers consist of foreigners from Philippines and China - their working hours simply reflect the working conditions in their uncivilized countries. Indeed, in Korea, we try to make people from Philippines and China more welcome by providing them with similar working hours they would have back in their countries, with no additional pay. After all, we realize that providing them with more reasonable hours would lead to a culture shock and perhaps even cause them to panic and leave our great country.

Some people here have mentioned that we often go to special dinners after work to establish a family-like relations with our co-workers. This is true, and it has to realize that this is not a part of work - we do this because we enjoy it. We would also never force our female workers to attend these parties - they go because they enjoy drinking. They enjoy drinking even more when our higher ups pour them full shots of soju and 'beg' them to drink up before the soju spoils.

At no point do the female workers ever feel coerced and we have great fun!

Sadly, western people often misunderstand and consider this fun activity counter-productive to our working atmosphere - causing us to be less than effective the next day. Nothing could be further from the truth - after all, soju is akin to an energy drink and contrary to popular belief, it provides us with a mental energy boost - something that can often be observed during the work mornings, when we often contemplate important matters with our eyes closed.

I hope that I have been able to clarify our camp's position to the simple-minded posters that seem to to be so common on eslcafe forum. I also extend an invitation to our camp to anyone that has been enlightened by this post. Please send applications to our camp's leader - SteelRails.

Thank you - I hope you understand.
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atwood



Joined: 26 Dec 2009

PostPosted: Sun Oct 20, 2013 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:
Captain Corea wrote:
. TUM, I fear you're relying too much on newspapers and gov reports - I suggest you actually talk to salarymen in Seoul to find out what it's like here.



I would...but I live several hours from Seoul. And anyway I'm fairly aware that if I were to post a number of such conversations and most did not jive with what a few people are saying on here, people (not including you) would either say that my experiences do not reflect the norm or that I'm pulling a "Black Cat" (making it up).
And while anecdotal reports are fine as far as they go, when one is talking about a whole country they lack authority.

As for government reports I would say the OECD reports are pretty accurate. And anyway now you are talking about just what some SALARYMEN do while I'm including ALL jobs. The original argument wasn't about how inefficient salarymen are. It was about how inefficient Koreans are.


But TUM, when we're talking about efficiency of workers, we usually talk about our coworkers. I have no idea how efficient farmers, KFC workers, or room salon girls are here - I've never worked with them. They ARE Korean workers, but I'm not able to assess their hours or efficiency simply because of my lack of experience with them.

So when we're discussing efficiency, chances are any personal examples on this forum are going to come from schools or offices. So I really don't think it's out of sorts to use them for examples.

As for the OECD reports - do you feel their accurate as to the number of assaults in this country? Or are their cultural issues that would skew it?



I agree that personal examples are mostly likely to come from schools or offices...no disagreement there. But that's what I'm trying to get at. These are only 2 sub sectors of the job market as a whole. What people are doing is taking their personal experiences with a few hundred people in a few tiny parts of that sector and expanding it to cover Korean workers here as a whole.
Sure they can be used as examples maybe...but only as examples of the sector they are in. But then that goes back to personal observation and printed data. And one can find both good and bad examples...so I don't think the claim of Koreans being particularly inefficient holds up given what they've accomplished.

As for the OECD reports...well no report on an entire nation can ever be 100% as there are always some factors that will skew it to one side or another. I feel they are likely as close as we are going to get...unless anyone knows of a more authoritative source.

What kind of assaults are we talking about? Domestic or street fights? Or overall?

You can accomplish a lot and still be inefficient. It just takes you longer or a lot longer.
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Mr. BlackCat



Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

TheUrbanMyth wrote:

...that I'm pulling a "Black Cat" (making it up).


Ah, here we go. I'm not sure what you're saying. Did I ever say you made anything up here? Did I make up some stories? Please be more clear if you're going to come at me personally. Otherwise it just looks like a cheap bitter dig at someone who exposed what you've been trying to do in this thread. See, I write out what I think you're doing while you often just throw these little insults out at people without any proof or context. That's the difference.

The ridiculous thing is, I actually agree with much of what you said (like I mentioned earlier, I think we're just degrees off). I just didn't like the way you presented it. But, unfortunately, for you and SR there doesn't seem to be any middle ground. People can't just have different opinions or realize that they're saying almost the same thing or even just agree to disagree. No, we have to agree with, praise and reinforce everything you guys say otherwise we're the "ENEMY". It's too bad, because I think we actually agree on more things than disagree and it would be better if we were both (I'll take some blame) were more honest and flexible in our approaches. It would also help if we took it all less personally.
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Captain Corea



Joined: 28 Feb 2005
Location: Seoul

PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As with most discussions on this site, I have a feeling we'd agree more in person.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. BlackCat wrote:
TheUrbanMyth wrote:

...that I'm pulling a "Black Cat" (making it up).


Ah, here we go. I'm not sure what you're saying. Did I ever say you made anything up here? Did I make up some stories? Please be more clear if you're going to come at me personally. Otherwise it just looks like a cheap bitter dig at someone who exposed what you've been trying to do in this thread. See, I write out what I think you're doing while you often just throw these little insults out at people without any proof or context. That's the difference...

. It would also help if we took it all less personally.


If you don't want people to take it personally...then don't make it personal by calling people hypocrites for example.

Be more clear? I already posted this but here it is again

Quote:
My point was that UM originally told us to ignore the stats about Korean inefficiency and instead only look at a couple of articles about Samsung. Then, when others brought in examples of various businesses they've worked at, UM told them those examples were meaningless and instead we should only trust a different set of stats. I was pointing out the hypocrisy in his posts..


This is a direct quote from you alleging that I said things which I never said.
Then when I called you on it you refused to acknowledge it.
(As an aside you will be hard pressed to find me making remarks without proof and context.) This is the THIRD TIME in this thread that I've told you I never said those.
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TheUrbanMyth



Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired

PostPosted: Wed Oct 23, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting back to the topic of the thread...I think it's possible that it was a honest mistake and the person meant YEAR instead of month. It is a second language after all. That however still does not excuse their proofreaders/fact checkers...oh wait this is the Korean Times...never mind then.



http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DatasetCode=ANHRS

As we can see Koreans worked an average of 2090 hours in 2011 (the last year the stats are available for them. Close enough.
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