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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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 Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Because we keep rehashing our faults? |
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There is a picture by Paul Klee called Angelus Novus. In it, an angel is depicted who appears as if trying to distance himself from something that he stares at. His eyes and mouth gape wide, his wings are stressed to their limit.
The Angel of History must look this way; he has turned to face the past. Where we see a constant chain of events, he sees only a single catastrophe incessantly piling ruin upon ruin and hurling them at his feet.
He would probably like to stop, waken the dead, and correct the devastation - but a storm is blowing hard from Paradise, and it is so strong he can no longer fold his wings.
While the debris piles toward the heavens before his eyes, the storm drives him incessantly into the Future that he has turned his back upon.
What we call Progress is this storm. |
Do you want to live like this forever, Big_Bird? Or would you prefer to leave the "look what X did to Y!" paradigm behind, face new directions, and move on to bigger and better, more constructive, things for humanity? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Do you want to live like this forever, Big_Bird? Or would you prefer to leave the "look what X did to Y!" paradigm behind and move on to bigger and better, more constructive, things for humanity? |
While so many are pointing out "look what Y did to X" I think it is important to point out what X has done (and is doing) to Y.
Also, as an individual, I try to take a good look at my faults and so I can do something about them, so I can continue to grow as a better and better person. Why can't nations do the same? We have to acknowledge our faults and reflect on them before we are able to move on as improved beings/entities. |
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Wangja
Joined: 17 May 2004
Location: Seoul, Yongsan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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With one third of the US army unable to keep the peace in Iraq, how amny more thirds would it take to create a similar position in Iran?
Clearer thinking is needed. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
Clearer thinking is needed. |
Or even thinking. Baby steps my friend! |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 5:12 pm Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| Do you want to bring people together, solve problems amicably, or just pick one side and then preach against the other? |
Yeah, because that's what you do when you talk about Iran, and it also applies well to your crusade against the left on this forum.
Not. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:02 pm Post subject: Two riders |
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=in4Wv_LGeO4&mode=related&search=
All Along The Watchtower:
"There must be some kind of way out of here,"
said the joker to the thief,
"There's too much confusion,
I can't get no relief.
Businessmen they drink my wine,
plowmen dig my earth
None of them along the line know what any of it is worth"
"No reason to get excited,"
the thief, he kindly spoke
"There are many here among us
who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I, we've been through that
and this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now, the hour is getting late"
All along the watchtower
Princes kept the view
While all the women came and went
Barefoot servants, too
Outside in the cold distance
A wildcat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl
http://www.musicfanclubs.org/jimihendrix/
cbc |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Wangja wrote: |
With one third of the US army unable to keep the peace in Iraq, how amny more thirds would it take to create a similar position in Iran?
Clearer thinking is needed. |
For some strange reason, I feel it important to clarify that you asked a practical question, Wangja, and I am offering a practical response. If someone takes offense and wishes to treat "morality," I commend them to someone else.
In any case, if the United States committed to total war in the Middle East, it could withdraw its forces from East Asia and redeploy them in CentCom in relatively short order, for one. Reinstitute the draft for another. This would call for temporarily converting sailors to soldiers for the six months to a year it would take the draftees to get into action. And then there are much more intense air power measures and tac and strategic nukes, if needed. Not to mention probable discrete support (read: money and logistics) from Saudi Arabia and perhaps Jordan, and, in-all-likelihood, a fully-mobilized, much more active IDF as well.
I understand the NSC has long had these options on its table -- just as Paris already referenced a potential nuclear response many months ago as well. Make no mistake, such a war would be tantamount to Armageddon, at least in the Middle Eastern theater, probably spilling into the EU as well.
By the way, whoever said a U.S.-Iranian war, a potentially UN-sponsored or NATO-backed war, would be a peacekeeping mission -- or even concerned with regime change, for that matter? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:35 pm Post subject: ... |
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| So, would it be safe to say that you're itching for a fight with Iran? |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 10:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| So, would it be safe to say that you're itching for a fight with Iran? |
Only if you had not read what I posted on this thread less than twelve hours ago. 
Oh yeah, you probably did and just do not care. Better to mischaracterize and then antagonize. That is your game here, right? |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:08 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| So, would it be safe to say that you're itching for a fight with Iran? |
Tsk tsk Nowhere Man. You've not been paying attention to this debate. Just look back at the first post on page 10 of this thread:
| Gopher wrote: |
I oppose the war too, you moron. I have always opposed the war. I do not believe that the W. Bush Administration made a convincing case for war, either. It was an unjust and to me, more importantly, too high-risk a policy to committ resources to -- as would be an open war against Iran at this particular time and place.
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Gopher does not agree with the US going to war with Iran. In his previous to last post, Gopher is just responding to Wanga's doubts that the US could realistically make war on Iran. In that post he also writes:
| Gopher wrote: |
Make no mistake, such a war would be tantamount to Armageddon, at least in the Middle Eastern theater, probably spilling into the EU as well.
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which also suggests he probably doesn't think it's such a clever idea. |
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| a potentially UN-sponsored or NATO-backed war |
Like the last one? How far out there are you?
I find it particularly surprising that you would use the interpretation of Walter Benjamin, a very straight Marxist, for the Angelus Novus of Klee. . As far as I know, Klee, a Swiss German, was not speaking about "the history of progress" nor wanted to make any such pretensions beyond colour and feeling. but Benjamin wrote a long influencial essay on it, based on his interpretation of this painting.......so you are now turning into a Marxist?
And why not post the real painting and not this whateveritwas???? Just another tool to make a point? Any way you can?
DD |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Jan 17, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject: ... |
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| Quote: |
| Gopher does not agree with the US going to war with Iran. In his previous to last post, Gopher is just responding to Wanga's doubts that the US could realistically make war on Iran. |
Doesn't agree with "going to war". Pretty vague. Does that include airstrikes? |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
I understand the NSC has long had these options on its table -- just as Paris already referenced a potential nuclear response many months ago as well. |
I don't want to get in the middle of this as I don't closely follow politics in that area. But, I'm wondering if by "Paris" you mean the French Government and if yes, do you mean that they said they may use nuclear bombs if a ME war broke out? Also, what is NSC? Not trolling, just asking. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 18, 2007 1:51 am Post subject: |
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| Wow. |
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