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meangradin · Joined: 10 Mar 2006

I know this is an act of futility, but why not.

I think you no less about Christianity than you do about the science you talk about. There are theists who do not embrace the fundamentalist position in regards to Genesis. Perhaps you would be stunned to discover that outside of the fundamentalist movt (which is most popular in the USA- hence the reason I believe you are an American), many Christians hold a view similar to my own. In fact, as no less an authority on Christianity, St Augustine once said, if you want to know about the stars, then study Astronomy, as you will only learn who created the stars, not the processes behind that creation. Genesis does not really say how God created the Universe, just that he did. Do you follow so far? Perhaps to you (and some others) this does not make me a Christian, but I beg to differ.

My point is this, I don't doubt your view that dinos existed and whatever before them, but for me, this is not a threat in any way to my faith as I believe that all life was created by God, in its original form. So basically, I am not arguing with your opinion on dinos, but rather the smugness and ignorance of your knowledge of Christianity and your belief that science and religion are jointly exhaustive and mutually exclusive.

OK? Do you see where I am coming from? So, as I mentioned earlier, there are many intellectuals/scientists/etc.. who embrace the view I support.

meangradin · Joined: 10 Mar 2006

Please understand that only a few hundred years ago (within the last 33% of Christianity's existence), trying to understand the mind of God through science was an executionable offence. I'm sorry to keep bringing this up, but it's hard to forgive 1000 years of merciless murder of innocents.

Absolutely fair enough. But I don't think I have to be an apologist for the past crimes or mistakes of the various churches. Add as "Kool" use to say, "you've come along way baby"

I sense that you are able to understand my point, even if you disagree with it. Faith does not preclude an interest in science, while the OP seems welded to not accepting this point.

As for The Bible being the direct word of God, that is a tough one. Some wonderfully religious contempoary scholars argue that the Bible was unquestionably not faxed to us from heaven. I tend to side with this view; inspired by the word of God, but probably twisted in many ways by generation after generation of men. But again, I suspect that these words would be heretical to some people, but hat is between my Lord and myself.

BTW, I use the possevive determiner because Ibelieve ones relationaship with the Creator, is just that, a personal ralationship (that ALL are invited to partake)

Khenan · Joined: 25 Dec 2007

Khenan · Joined: 25 Dec 2007

JustJohn · Joined: 18 Oct 2007 Location: Your computer screen

Justin:

While the Bible may say many things that are inconsistent or false, to be fair everything must be taken in context, and the flat earth and such are not supposed to be taken literally according to Christians.

(And I'd have to agree. Much of the Bible was written as poetry, and similes and metaphors abound. To take it literally would be like taking the line "I'm walking on sunshine" literally.)

Also, I imagine the reason no one answered your dinosaur thing is that it doesn't really have any bearing on the subject. You know not all Christians are young-earth creationists, right?

tomato · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:13 am Post subject:

tomato · Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:54 am Post subject:

mindmetoo · Joined: 02 Feb 2004

meangradin · Joined: 10 Mar 2006

"Here's the thing. When I first started thinking about religion in a conscious way, somewhere back in my teens, I realized that Christianity was responsible for a lot of bad things. A lot. How can you possibly reconcile this fact with the idea that your God is all-loving? The Church and the God are one. You seem to claim that this is not so, but it is in fact so, unless you are an adherent to a small faction of some other faction of Christianity."

I understand that you are a neo-Christian, who believes all the nice stuff, but ignores everything that came in the previous one thousand nine hundred and fifty years. The ability to do this can only be explained by blind faith, which is something Christians are selling for free.

This next part is important:

Please explain to me why I should listen to your religion, which has really only existed in its present form for about 30 years, when the previous 2000 years have been such a textbook example of human depravity?

First, I don't see myself as a "neo Christian," but rather merely a Christian. In a parallel way to knowledge in science, ideas and beliefs evolve over time. Therefore, I see my views as connected to the past, but not wholly based in the past. I think you are attacking the straw man when you say that the church has only been a tool of evil, etc... Think about how the rise of protestantism lead to an explosion in literacy, as but one example. Undeniably, the Catholic church has done some awful things in the past, for which many contemporary leaders of the Catholic Church have apoligized (Not that I think they have to). Basicaly, I don't buy the idea that the church is uncorruptable because it is one and the same with God. I think it is an idea that the church tried to sell to the masses. The church is a body for man by man inspired by the Creator. I don't think it anyway reduces my faith that man can be an evil beast, including those that use the church for their own ends. And why would the church be any different than any other organisation that man controls? Even in the time of the Prophets, the churches were running amok.

And really, why should I have to justify the past, to live in the present?

meangradin · Joined: 10 Mar 2006

Who is doing that? Where your beliefs cross into my business is when spokespeople for your religion want to change laws in accordance with their religious beliefs. Then it seems fair to examine these beliefs.

I understand this frustration, as the "act theists" are lobbying hard these days. Personally, I see where they are comming from, but there are many of us, who are uncomfortable with this type of faith in action. I see faith as a personal thing, but I have to live according to that faith. However, I don't think it is correct to legislate a country in to belief; one has to make the choice for themself.

itaewonguy · Joined: 25 Mar 2003

MIND ME TOO! change your Avatar, makes you look like a pedophile!
that girl is probably 15 years old.. for god sake man!!!!