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KingMomo
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Location: Here and there
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 Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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"You know the liquor stores, nail stores, and beauty supply (hair and weave extensions) stores that cater to an African-American clientele, you know who owns them? Koreans.
I've meet multiple Korean people who know Lotto slang because of working in "ghetto" liquor stores. "
OWNS them. Not in dire straits, but doing pretty well for themselves.
Koreans own all the liquor stores in southern Cali.
I know this is a gross overstatement, but still.....
But, I know what you're saying about mimicking music. Koreans
just happen to be some of the last ones 'on board' and it's just
some tired ol' sㅐ l + we've seen done over and over again by
so many other races before them. It's brilliant that they are
marketing a lot of this back to Korea. Ks love this crap. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
| A video of a nigga beating down an adjeossi has gone viral. Think he has any respect for Korea? Definitely not for the music and those K performers who ape ghetto mannerisms. Keep copying, K-pop, you're just building up more entitlement for foreigners to look down their noses at your country. |
Right, because music is a good reason to look down on anybody. 
But its okay for white people to copy Black music right? I mean a good chunk of white music over the last 70 years has been strongly influenced by black people. But its alright, because it's all white.
Again, anyone who thinks people are better or worse human beings based on what music they listen to is an idiot. An absolute idiot.
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Well, if you meet people who grew up in dire straits and only made it out of hell through expressing what they've been through, it just hits a slightly off note for suburban whites, Koreans or gyopos or whoever to use the same style in order to get popular. Taking a musical idea and mixing it up in with a lot of other ingredients to make something really fresh that could have never happened in the place of origin (in this case, a ghetto/project/'hood) can have merit, but just apeing the gestures wholesale in your bedroom (not on a public stage where you have to really prove what you're doing to all-comers) is just a little too rich. You know, Eminem had to go out and face the music and has survived, whereas Vanilla Ice folded, but at least he got up there and battled.
So if these gyopos really go out there and prove themselves, like out on the streets where these mannerisms and sounds are from, then I'd be a little more inclined to give'em a nod of respect. |
Oh and Stout, one thing you might not realize but should, is that a lot of those gyopos (who by the way I can't stand), actually live or lived in the ghetto and worked in the ghetto.
You know the liquor stores, nail stores, and beauty supply (hair and weave extensions) stores that cater to an African-American clientele, you know who owns them? Koreans.
I've meet multiple Korean people who know Lotto slang because of working in "ghetto" liquor stores.
Maybe you should actually bother to get a clue.
I'll also tell you this, black folks may get irritated at other cultures copying their style, but what they would really hate is a bunch of white people criticizing other people for ripping off black music. |
I'm not condoning what happened, just telling it as it is. Blacks equally look down on whites for copying their riffs/rymes and beats.
Yeah, a lot of gyopos are in the hood. So are a lot of Latinos. People are generally more familiar with and give respect to Latin music. Wonder why.
Finally, you always make way too many assumptions and fly off the handle. Guess what? I ain't white.
Have a nice day. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
Yeah, a lot of gyopos are in the hood. So are a lot of Latinos. People are generally more familiar with and give respect to Latin music. Wonder why.
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But you mean because Tejano music is so original?
Tejano corridos are huge. But it's about as original as KPop. I like my corridos though...I don't care if its a copy of polka and if a child could cut up sheet music of 20 songs, paste them together and get a new song. They always make me smile.
Gotta ask...is that you wiganer? |
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Mix1
Joined: 08 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
I'll also tell you this, black folks may get irritated at other cultures copying their style, but what they would really hate is a bunch of white people criticizing other people for ripping off black music. |
OR...they might hate one assuming what they "would really hate."
Did you take a poll or something?
Not sure how this thread ties into the bus fight thread at all though... they weren't fighting about music. Unless of course we later find out that the aggressor snapped from hearing too much K-pop. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:14 am Post subject: |
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My point with how it ties in is that a country's music can really color one's perception of the people and culture. A thug so obviously into hip hop beats and gangsta mannerisms is prone to having a dim view of Koreans when he sees them apeing his homies on stage or from the comfort of their bedroom trying to get famous. So when someone from this country of (from his view) wanna-be's tells him to shut-up, he's already got the safety off and is ready to pull the trigger.
Now let's say he worships African hi-life music and is on a bus in Ghana. I say he's less likely to get into it. If he's a streetballer and MJ tells him to tone it down and have a seat, I think he'd do it.
And its not just him. Let's face it, foreigners in general feel a sense of superiority and entitlement here. The way K-pop rips off western music just feeds into it. Whereas there's a lot more respect (not saying no one's ever had a complaint) for say a culture like Bali where they've gone to great lengths to develop their own very distinctive style of music (their elite nobles also elected to walk into a hail of machine gun fire rather than collaborate with the Dutch, whereas the Joseon elite had no problem teaming up first with Japan, than Uncle Sam). You can't look down on (although you may misunderstand or underestimate) Balinese music because it's something you couldn't have ever dreamt up yourself, and obviously has its own brand of magic and power, which (if you have grasped that basic fact) then heightens your esteem for the people and country. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
My point with how it ties in is that a country's music can really color one's perception of the people and culture. A thug so obviously into hip hop beats and gangsta mannerisms is prone to having a dim view of Koreans when he sees them apeing his homies on stage or from the comfort of their bedroom trying to get famous. So when someone from this country of (from his view) wanna-be's tells him to shut-up, he's already got the safety off and is ready to pull the trigger.
Now let's say he worships African hi-life music and is on a bus in Ghana. I say he's less likely to get into it. If he's a streetballer and MJ tells him to tone it down and have a seat, I think he'd do it.
And its not just him. Let's face it, foreigners in general feel a sense of superiority and entitlement here. The way K-pop rips off western music just feeds into it. Whereas there's a lot more respect (not saying no one's ever had a complaint) for say a culture like Bali where they've gone to great lengths to develop their own very distinctive style of music (their elite nobles also elected to walk into a hail of machine gun fire rather than collaborate with the Dutch, whereas the Joseon elite had no problem teaming up first with Japan, than Uncle Sam). You can't look down on (although you may misunderstand or underestimate) Balinese music because it's something you couldn't have ever dreamt up yourself, and obviously has its own brand of magic and power, which (if you have grasped that basic fact) then heightens your esteem for the people and country. |
interesting take.
I love Balinese music. very different, unique and enchanting, but I'm speaking of their traditional music. I like hearing it in context.. for e.g. inside a temple. but What do young balinese listen to today?
probably trance.
k pop isn't a fair comparison. You'd have to be comparing more traditional Korean sounds. |
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rambler
Joined: 18 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:21 am Post subject: |
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This thread is too stupid to read through 12 pages.
Has anyone pointed out that kpop girls are super hot?
Or that all of your students will be completely engaged in a conversation about the song about going on vacation? |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
| Stout wrote: |
My point with how it ties in is that a country's music can really color one's perception of the people and culture. A thug so obviously into hip hop beats and gangsta mannerisms is prone to having a dim view of Koreans when he sees them apeing his homies on stage or from the comfort of their bedroom trying to get famous. So when someone from this country of (from his view) wanna-be's tells him to shut-up, he's already got the safety off and is ready to pull the trigger.
Now let's say he worships African hi-life music and is on a bus in Ghana. I say he's less likely to get into it. If he's a streetballer and MJ tells him to tone it down and have a seat, I think he'd do it.
And its not just him. Let's face it, foreigners in general feel a sense of superiority and entitlement here. The way K-pop rips off western music just feeds into it. Whereas there's a lot more respect (not saying no one's ever had a complaint) for say a culture like Bali where they've gone to great lengths to develop their own very distinctive style of music (their elite nobles also elected to walk into a hail of machine gun fire rather than collaborate with the Dutch, whereas the Joseon elite had no problem teaming up first with Japan, than Uncle Sam). You can't look down on (although you may misunderstand or underestimate) Balinese music because it's something you couldn't have ever dreamt up yourself, and obviously has its own brand of magic and power, which (if you have grasped that basic fact) then heightens your esteem for the people and country. |
interesting take.
I love Balinese music. very different, unique and enchanting, but I'm speaking of their traditional music. I like hearing it in context.. for e.g. inside a temple. but What do young balinese listen to today?
probably trance.
k pop isn't a fair comparison. You'd have to be comparing more traditional Korean sounds. |
Cool you're into gamelan and such.
I feel like I can make the comparison on the basis that the Balinese have fiecely defended their culture and have gone to great lengths to not only preserve it, but develop and adapt it. I spent time with the leader of a gamelan/dance troupe, and it became apparent that balinese youth are very much in touch with gamelan music because it has continued to evolve, and is brought into the everyday lives of everyone, to the extent that (perhaps with the exception of tourist trap Kuta) it is part of the lifeblood of every community. Instruction in gamelan and traditional dance are standard fare in the schools.
Koreans, on the other hand, have been led to view everything Western as the ideal progressive solution, and have long since ditched traditional instruments in favor of pianos and violins for the majority of their school activities and community events, as well as the social prestige and status that mastery over these instruments bring, because by doing so they can be almost as good...as...well, at least they can share the same stage with, and go to the same elite musical institutions like Juilliard, so be regarded as almost equal to...
Like I said, the Balinese elite chose to fight with daggers against Dutch machine guns, whereas Joseon elite had only no problem aiding the Japanese and US military to put down their own countrymen in order to keep a hold on power and money. These decisions benchmarked the directions in which their culture and music developed, so not only do I think the comparison is valid, I think it's one that needs to be pointed out.
When you get down to it, it is a question of respecting either: (A) the rich lackey/teacher's pet who is extremely clever and good with appearances, and preserves a basically neutered "tradition" in the background, while enslaving everyone to a lifestyle dedicated to following another civilization's economic and cultural model (B) someone who has kept the integrity of their ancestral inheritance alive and thriving, and gains more satisfaction through the life of the community ceremonies and festivals, rather than decreeing that everyone devote the better part of their lives to first school and then the office serving the interests of a privileged few who are led by those who they aspire to be like, and have been spineless despots for over 500 years who only know the art of kowtowing to bigger cultural entities.
There's craploads of corruption in Bali (and everywhere) as well, but they've definitely made their own way culturally and musically, which again, confers upon the Balinese a certain magic and power/respect, which is not dependant on flash mobs, corporate sponsorship, mass media manipulation, mimicing another social group's music and mannerisms, cheap sexual innuendo by surgically-altered bodies/faces, etc. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 8:53 am Post subject: |
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stout, I understand where you;'re coming from and it's certainly a nice romantic notion and ideal.
but sometimes reality interferes and not in a pleasant manner.
The Koreans simply adapted the Japanese Meji restoration or simply had it forced upon them by the Japanese. They were brought kicking and screaming into the latter 19th and then 20th century by the Japanese.
I think most Japanese today would say that the Meji Restoration was a good thing, even though we all may adore and even weep while watching "the Last Samurai".
for all Korean "adaptations" of Western culture, etc I think one could forcefully argue that their culture remains very distinct, very different and fairly unique (in some ways, in non positive aspects)
so even if they completely caved in in a certain aspect, like K Pop.. it's still "uniquely" Korean. Name another place producing some of that garbage now being produced in Korea?)
We did away with the short lives of boy and girl bands more than a decade ago but their continued appeal in East and SE Asia is undeniable. The Korean influence there is undeniable. and palpable.
Korean TV dramas are undermining the social mores of rural Burma/Myanmar. No joke. Heard that from a young Burmese guy while touring around Bagan. |
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Stout
Joined: 28 May 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:08 am Post subject: |
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| rainism wrote: |
stout, I understand where you;'re coming from and it's certainly a nice romantic notion and ideal.
but sometimes reality interferes and not in a pleasant manner.
The Koreans simply adapted the Japanese Meji restoration or simply had it forced upon them by the Japanese. They were brought kicking and screaming into the latter 19th and then 20th century by the Japanese.
I think most Japanese today would say that the Meji Restoration was a good thing, even though we all may adore and even weep while watching "the Last Samurai".
for all Korean "adaptations" of Western culture, etc I think one could forcefully argue that their culture remains very distinct, very different and fairly unique (in some ways, in non positive aspects)
so even if they completely caved in in a certain aspect, like K Pop.. it's still "uniquely" Korean. Name another place producing some of that garbage now being produced in Korea?)
We did away with the short lives of boy and girl bands more than a decade ago but their continued appeal in East and SE Asia is undeniable. The Korean influence there is undeniable. and palpable.
Korean TV dramas are undermining the social mores of rural Burma/Myanmar. No joke. Heard that from a young Burmese guy while touring around Bagan. |
Exactly. Korean culture is the result of being dictated to by China, Japan, and the US. Therefore there is no real core vision or driving force, just imported ideas juggled haphazardly producing crap (yes, there are some decent movies amidst all this) aimed at raking in dough/reinforcing a hollow designer brand goods lifestyle in line with plastic surgery-type values, i.e. "to hell with the world/environment/other people/my own personal character, let me just get mine as fast as possible by any means possible so long as my image remains intact."
And the reality of Bali is that they chose to be romantic and ideal and as a concrete result in reality produce very compelling music to go with their splendid dances and ceremonies, just like the Greater Bird of Paradise's flowery tail is highly impractical yet in reality stunningly beautiful.
A lot of people will go with beauty over cheap crap corporate imitation any day, and I'm one of them. If the culture here inspired a bit more respect, there'd be less open displays of mockery and disdain of the locals, even given the fact that the bus thug may just be an all-out whacko. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
| rainism wrote: |
stout, I understand where you;'re coming from and it's certainly a nice romantic notion and ideal.
but sometimes reality interferes and not in a pleasant manner.
The Koreans simply adapted the Japanese Meji restoration or simply had it forced upon them by the Japanese. They were brought kicking and screaming into the latter 19th and then 20th century by the Japanese.
I think most Japanese today would say that the Meji Restoration was a good thing, even though we all may adore and even weep while watching "the Last Samurai".
for all Korean "adaptations" of Western culture, etc I think one could forcefully argue that their culture remains very distinct, very different and fairly unique (in some ways, in non positive aspects)
so even if they completely caved in in a certain aspect, like K Pop.. it's still "uniquely" Korean. Name another place producing some of that garbage now being produced in Korea?)
We did away with the short lives of boy and girl bands more than a decade ago but their continued appeal in East and SE Asia is undeniable. The Korean influence there is undeniable. and palpable.
Korean TV dramas are undermining the social mores of rural Burma/Myanmar. No joke. Heard that from a young Burmese guy while touring around Bagan. |
Exactly. Korean culture is the result of being dictated to by China, Japan, and the US. Therefore there is no real core vision or driving force, just imported ideas juggled haphazardly producing crap (yes, there are some decent movies amidst all this) aimed at raking in dough/reinforcing a hollow designer brand goods lifestyle in line with plastic surgery-type values, i.e. "to hell with the world/environment/other people/my own personal character, let me just get mine as fast as possible by any means possible so long as my image remains intact."
And the reality of Bali is that they chose to be romantic and ideal and as a concrete result in reality produce very compelling music to go with their splendid dances and ceremonies, just like the Greater Bird of Paradise's flowery tail is highly impractical yet in reality stunningly beautiful.
A lot of people will go with beauty over cheap crap corporate imitation any day, and I'm one of them. If the culture here inspired a bit more respect, there'd be less open displays of mockery and disdain of the locals, even given the fact that the bus thug may just be an all-out whacko. |
hmm. well I can't really argue with that.
I would point out though that cheap crap corporate imitation, status showing/flaunting isn't remotely unique to Korea. Or China. Or Japan.
it's pretty much like that the world over. What's happening with the nuveaux riche in the developing world makes me vomit. So you can't be too tough on Koreans in this regard... while retaining your utmost admiration for the Balinese. |
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KingMomo
Joined: 25 Aug 2011
Location: Here and there
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2011 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Stout wrote: |
I feel like I can make the comparison on the basis that the Balinese have fiecely defended their culture and have gone to great lengths to not only preserve it, but develop and adapt it. I spent time with the leader of a gamelan/dance troupe, and it became apparent that balinese youth are very much in touch with gamelan music because it has continued to evolve, and is brought into the everyday lives of everyone, to the extent that (perhaps with the exception of tourist trap Kuta) it is part of the lifeblood of every community. Instruction in gamelan and traditional dance are standard fare in the schools.
Koreans, on the other hand, have been led to view everything Western as the ideal progressive solution, and have long since ditched traditional instruments in favor of pianos and violins for the majority of their school activities and community events, as well as the social prestige and status that mastery over these instruments bring, because by doing so they can be almost as good...as...well, at least they can share the same stage with, and go to the same elite musical institutions like Juilliard, so be regarded as almost equal to...
Like I said, the Balinese elite chose to fight with daggers against Dutch machine guns, whereas Joseon elite had only no problem aiding the Japanese and US military to put down their own countrymen in order to keep a hold on power and money. These decisions benchmarked the directions in which their culture and music developed, so not only do I think the comparison is valid, I think it's one that needs to be pointed out.
When you get down to it, it is a question of respecting either: (A) the rich lackey/teacher's pet who is extremely clever and good with appearances, and preserves a basically neutered "tradition" in the background, while enslaving everyone to a lifestyle dedicated to following another civilization's economic and cultural model (B) someone who has kept the integrity of their ancestral inheritance alive and thriving, and gains more satisfaction through the life of the community ceremonies and festivals, rather than decreeing that everyone devote the better part of their lives to first school and then the office serving the interests of a privileged few who are led by those who they aspire to be like, and have been spineless despots for over 500 years who only know the art of kowtowing to bigger cultural entities.
There's craploads of corruption in Bali (and everywhere) as well, but they've definitely made their own way culturally and musically, which again, confers upon the Balinese a certain magic and power/respect, which is not dependant on flash mobs, corporate sponsorship, mass media manipulation, mimicing another social group's music and mannerisms, cheap sexual innuendo by surgically-altered bodies/faces, etc. |
This is probably one of the best/most accurate descriptions/critiques I've heard of Korean culture/society in a longgg time. At least how their culture has been 'molded' over the past several centuries. Some of it as recent as just decades. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:26 am Post subject: |
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Ok, I have to eat my own words again.
earlier on this thread, I mentioned Adele, and mentioned she's fat and pallid. (and was kind of wondering why she was on top of the US charts)
I don't back away from such characterizations. They're TRUE.
but here's the thing. I listened to the wrong vid/song.. I started to listening to other things out of curiosity.
I don't care that Adele is fat and pallid. She's not a model.
She's a singer.. she's a performing artist.. and lord oh lord. what a singer she is!!!!!!
what's interesting is that she is the antithesis of K Pop, which is Lady Gagaesque... no dancing... no pyrotechnics...
very stripped down production/backdrop.. mostly piano..
on things like THIS... just freaking AMAZING
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qemWRToNYJY |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:45 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, will never see a husky lady with stripped down music on the Gayo stage...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-0Pr8TwUSk
Yeah, and it's not like Koreans have never heard of Big Mama....
| Quote: |
| There's craploads of corruption in Bali (and everywhere) as well, but they've definitely made their own way culturally and musically, which again, confers upon the Balinese a certain magic and power/respect, which is not dependant on flash mobs, corporate sponsorship, mass media manipulation, mimicing another social group's music and mannerisms, cheap sexual innuendo by surgically-altered bodies/faces, etc. |
Comparing Bali, a tiny country set up for tourism with a population less than a tenth of Korea's and Korea is just silly.
You take tourism away and Bali is nothing.
I mean you may poopoo money and all that, but that's spoken like someone who has never faced hunger.
There's a reason Koreans desperately tried to modernize and get where they are- They faced hunger and invasion.
Yeah the people on island paradises tend to have great culture and be nice to foreigners. Probably has something to do with living on an island and having your entire livelihood dependent on sucking up to tourists.
Of course in spite of all this, where are we? Teaching English in Korea. Not Bali.
Again, judging people based on music=stupidity. Good music does not make you a good person. Bad music does not make you a bad person. Anyone who thinks music does do that is a peawit. No dancing around it. |
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rainism
Joined: 13 Apr 2011
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| Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 6:55 am Post subject: |
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WTF.. Steelrails I thought you might be turning me on to something GOOD in Korean?
they have fairly nice voices, but it's some cookie cutter song, with no pull, no emotion, nothing.
and what's with the overwrought "group" arrangement?
you destroyed my Adele buzz... now I have to go back and listen to her some more..
(besides, I already told you I like 2Ne1 , the Lonely accoustic studio version.
and suprisingly enough.. I like the MBLAQ hit .. Mona Lisa.)
interesting thing about Adele, I was doing some reading up on her.. her new album has gone 1 or 2 in almost ALL of Europe.. US, Australia, even BRAZIL. but nothing in Asia... went like 53 in Japan (only place in Asia where it was released) nothing in Korea.
but I was playing one of her songs in the English Zone today and several of my students stuck their heads in and asked who singer?? good voice.
so I'm going to introduce her to my kiddies in my classes shortly. |
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