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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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 Posted: Thu Nov 09, 2006 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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Could someone state a prophecy here?
Just to stay on topic.
Like explain the 4 horsemen, were they a prediction of the crusades?
How much of Revs is already past?
All that hocum.
Was Nostradamus a prophet?
How about Edgar Cayce?
cbc
Last edited by cbclark4 on Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 4:35 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
He is to return, right? So that's a part of the fulfillment and its the hope that I hold as a Christian. As the world becomes torn by war and hatred, I put my faith into the hope that Jesus will bring peace to this world. |
Where is a first and second coming predicted in the OT?
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Well, one they wrote from the same oral tradition. Two, how many "prophets," who didn't get it right, were left out of the Bible? I'm still trying to research the historical details of the Bible, so I have no proof to offer. Just putting it out as a hypothesis.
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It's always something to consider and if it something did come out like that then I would have to question my own faith because of it. There are many books, like the gnostic gospels and so forth that others like to think dispell the truth of Christ, but as you research their validity, they don't hold in a arena of truth. |
Well, I'd look for more info, but since I already know what you'd say I won't bother. Either they're false prophets. Or the prophecies are going to be fulfilled in the future. Regardless, much of this evidence for or against depends on ancient texts which were based upon oral histories, and have been written down and copied numerous times. With unknown additions, omissions, or corrections. So that whole line will yield us little in terms of agreement.
If you want to engage in scientific proof, you need to conform to the standards of science. i.e. a verifiable complete list of prophecies and verifiable fulfillment. Since you've posted some prophecies from modern day "prophets," surely we can examine one of them to determine if they might pass the scientific test.
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| So do you agree with Meeguk that G-d knows anything and everything that is going to happen? Past, present, and future? |
Yes, Jesus is the great "I AM" He was, He is and He will always be. It is why the Jews crucified him. He testified that He was greater than Abraham. |
So I asked Meegook, but he is incapable of formulating a coherent viewpoint. So I'll ask you:
If G-d is omniscient, where is free will? If he already knows anything and everything that is happening and going to happen, what choices do we really have?
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| Hmm, the two lineages presented to us in the NT (Matthew 1:1-17 and Luke 3:23-38 ) are entirely patrilineal. Even Mary is not mentioned, but rather the connection is drawn through Joseph, son(-in-law) of Heli (in Luke). So I guess you get the connection through Mary, but you ignore the overwhelmingly patrilineal nature of Jewish genealogy (e.g. 1 Chronicles 1). |
Mary, since she had no brothers, was an heiress; therefore her husband, according to principle of Jewish law (Numbers 36), was reckoned among her father's family, as his son. So Joseph was that actual son of Jacob, and the legal son of Heli. |
Not according to the Jews. And it is their laws you are trying to interpret.
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/jews-jesus/jews-jesus-index.html
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First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15)
He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10)
To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah.
He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13)
The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether! |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Fri Nov 10, 2006 10:49 pm Post subject: |
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| the_beaver wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
Meegok, are homosexuals really only 2% of the population?
I've heard figures much higher than that.
Plus there are so many closet homosexuals (you just need to look into your own chuch and Catholic priests to find them) in the world.
Especially in countries or cultures that look down on homosexuality.
I'm not gay, but I have gay friends here in Seoul and they know several Korean men with a wife and families who play for the other team.
Meegok man, the more gays the more ladies for us. I support them 100%.  |
In Meegok's defense (not that he needs one as his wall of dummyheadedness is unassailable) it's really only gay groups that quote the higher numbers. Some studies peg it at 2% of women and 4% of men and a few others a little bit higher, but the criteria those studies use include casual bisexuality as well.
And as for your final comment, I agree. I've often wished that I was the only guy in the world who isn't gay. |
I'm sorry, but if you get a hundered males together, you mean to tell me that on 4 of them are gay.
Well this website supports you argument.
http://www.leaderu.com/marco/special/spc11b.html
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| Several recent studies call into serious question the 1948 Kinsey research figures often quoted by homosexuals to suggest a 10% homosexual presence in the general population. |
But again, the climate of being open about your sexuality all around the world is still hush hush.
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| Arab MK: No gays in Muslim society |
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3271025,00.html
I really don't know and I have yet to find a study on this subject that is widely accepted by all sides. Of couse that would be difficult.
And I understand that homosexuality may be given wide media coverage and thus the perceptions on the subject may be scewed.
But my gut just tells me that the figure is higher than 2%.
Perhaps it's only 2% that are openly gay. However, I would think that the figure is much higher because there has to be more closet homos than out in the open ones. |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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The topic is "Proof of Prophecy".
If there is a Homosexual prophet state your case.
If not, no gay bashing and no bashing religion for not accepting gay stuff.
Let's discuss prophecy and proof, doesn't have to be biblical does it?
There is a richness to be discussed.
cbc |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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Very interesting read on Prophecy in particular Revelations:
http://www.edgarcayce.org/ps2/mysticism_interpretating_revelation.html
"How the church held onto the story of the Revelation and allowed it into their final authorized canon is about as amazing as the vision it records. All the original manuscripts of the New Testament have been lost. Much of our knowledge today comes from second- to eighth-century Greek manuscripts, some surviving translations of the first-century material into other languages, and early church writers who were recording from memory what they had read or had been told to them from first-century sources. The most important and oldest manuscripts of all or parts of the New Testament that survive today are written on papyrus and parchment, and date back only to the second century. We have no written manuscripts of the Gospels, Epistles, or Revelation dating from the first century. There are several reasons for this" by John Van Auken
A little mind expanding read.
cbc |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
Could someone state a prophecy here?
Just to stay on topic.
Like explain the 4 horsemen, were they a prediction of the crusades?
How much of Revs is already past?
All that hocum.
Was Nostradamus a prophet?
How about Edgar Cayce?
cbc |
My prophecy is that all threads in current affairs will at one time go of topic and onto homosexuality or the beeble |
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cbclark4
Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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RE: ED209
That is merely a prediction not true prophecy.
The conclusion requires no true vision.
Humble thyself, take thee to the desert!
cbc |
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Grimalkin
Joined: 22 May 2005
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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fiveeagles wrote
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| Mary, since she had no brothers, was an heiress; therefore her husband, according to principle of Jewish law (Numbers 36), was reckoned among her father's family, as his son. So Joseph was that actual son of Jacob, and the legal son of Heli. |
How do you know she had no brothers? Can you back that up with a biblical or other source? |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 12, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| cbclark4 wrote: |
RE: ED209
That is merely a prediction not true prophecy.
The conclusion requires no true vision.
Humble thyself, take thee to the desert!
cbc |
Would it help if I masked it in metaphors.
This seam of runes and stars will forsakes its own to that of the friends of Dorothy on the seventh moon by 6.35pm GMT. So it be told! |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:00 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
If you want to engage in scientific proof, you need to conform to the standards of science. i.e. a verifiable complete list of prophecies and verifiable fulfillment. Since you've posted some prophecies from modern day "prophets," surely we can examine one of them to determine if they might pass the scientific test.
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Unfortunately, the church isn't at this stage yet. Hopefully within the next ten years, someone will arise with strong prophetic accuracy. I have seen a lot of words come true, like people being healed of sickness's and diseases, but I have also seen a lot of people not healed. Which wouldn't stand up to scientific methods.
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So I asked Meegook, but he is incapable of formulating a coherent viewpoint. So I'll ask you:
If G-d is omniscient, where is free will? If he already knows anything and everything that is happening and going to happen, what choices do we really have? |
What did Meegook say? I would like to hear what he has to say.
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| Not according to the Jews. And it is their laws you are trying to interpret. |
Why not? The ball is in your court to show me why I can't use my evidence. Your examples do not refute what I have shown to be true. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
Unfortunately, the church isn't at this stage yet. Hopefully within the next ten years, someone will arise with strong prophetic accuracy. I have seen a lot of words come true, like people being healed of sickness's and diseases, but I have also seen a lot of people not healed. Which wouldn't stand up to scientific methods. |
Amputees? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 3:23 am Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| huffdaddy wrote: |
If you want to engage in scientific proof, you need to conform to the standards of science. i.e. a verifiable complete list of prophecies and verifiable fulfillment. Since you've posted some prophecies from modern day "prophets," surely we can examine one of them to determine if they might pass the scientific test.
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Unfortunately, the church isn't at this stage yet. Hopefully within the next ten years, someone will arise with strong prophetic accuracy. I have seen a lot of words come true, like people being healed of sickness's and diseases, but I have also seen a lot of people not healed. Which wouldn't stand up to scientific methods. |
2000 years in and no prophets? Why does the church need to be at any stage? If the Jews could have prophets out the wazzoo 3000 years ago, why can't the Christian Church have a few prophets now? That strikes me as very strange.
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So I asked Meegook, but he is incapable of formulating a coherent viewpoint. So I'll ask you:
If G-d is omniscient, where is free will? If he already knows anything and everything that is happening and going to happen, what choices do we really have? |
What did Meegook say? I would like to hear what he has to say. |
From the Ted Haggard thread:
| meegook wrote: |
| Get real huffinggranddad, being omniscient is not the same as making someone do something. |
That's as far as he got. Logically, omniscience is predetermination. And predetermination is the absence of free will. Please reconcile.
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| Not according to the Jews. And it is their laws you are trying to interpret. |
Why not? The ball is in your court to show me why I can't use my evidence. Your examples do not refute what I have shown to be true. |
I have quoted several Jewish cites that address this:
http://www.jewsforjudaism.org/jews-jesus/jews-jesus-index.html
http://www.beliefnet.com/story/162/story_16261_1.html
http://www.conncoll.edu/academics/departments/relstudies/290/judaism/jesus.html
Numerous prophecies ragarding the Messiah were unfulfilled by J---s. You claim that they will be fullfilled in the second coming. But where is this second coming prophecised to begin with? |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:08 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| fiveeagles wrote: |
Unfortunately, the church isn't at this stage yet. Hopefully within the next ten years, someone will arise with strong prophetic accuracy. I have seen a lot of words come true, like people being healed of sickness's and diseases, but I have also seen a lot of people not healed. Which wouldn't stand up to scientific methods. |
Amputees? |
Actually, they have been healed, but because the experiment can't be repeated with continued success than the scientific arena disses it. |
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fiveeagles
Joined: 19 May 2005
Location: Vancouver
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:18 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
2000 years in and no prophets? Why does the church need to be at any stage? If the Jews could have prophets out the wazzoo 3000 years ago, why can't the Christian Church have a few prophets now? That strikes me as very strange.
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You only had a handful of prophets who foretold with great accuracy. The church is going to enter a stage where their prophecies will be greater than that of the past. Too much corruption and evil permeate the modern church and dims it's ability to perform powerful works for the Lord.
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That's as far as he got. Logically, omniscience is predetermination. And predetermination is the absence of free will. Please reconcile.
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I wrote this article about 2 years ago.
When God crosses His arms
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| Numerous prophecies ragarding the Messiah were unfulfilled by J---s. You claim that they will be fullfilled in the second coming. But where is this second coming prophecised to begin with? |
We were talking about the lineage of Jesus through Mary and now it is about the second coming? Ok. Sorry bout that.
What do you mean where is it? |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Mon Nov 13, 2006 8:19 pm Post subject: |
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| fiveeagles wrote: |
| Actually, they have been healed, but because the experiment can't be repeated with continued success than the scientific arena disses it. |
CITE? |
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