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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
(1) Depending on the forum it is in (and I don't mean the forums on Dave's I mean forum in the wider media sense) it can be a political action or weak. It doesn't HAVE to be one or the other. It depends on circumstances. It's not so black and white as you seem to think.
2. Yes you never said you were the MLK of the Internet, that is true. But when you say stuff like (and I'm paraphrasing here) "Whenever I see injustice I stand up and speak about it", it leads one to think of strong specific actions. Not posting on an tiny discussion board under an fake name with a readership of maybe a couple hundred strong.
3. I'm not starting with a conclusion. I'm starting with YOUR OWN WORDS. You've already stated YOUR conclusions I'm just working with that.
4. Again I'm simply pointing out that your accusations about us could with even more justice be applied to you. That's not the "rubber/glue" argument...I'm asking why the hypocrisy.
Now if you're finished...let's get back to the closing of the bar. And as such I have a few questions for you.
If the market demands it why not?
Don't the owners of the property have a right to make as much money as they can?
If they perceive a wider market for a certain clientele why can't they change?
And lastly why are they or anyone else obliged in any way, shape or form to have a 'homogenous enclave' for foreigners? |
1. Uh, ok, but we're talking about a post here on this board. So, in this very specific instance is it a political act or cowardly? I'm still unclear.
2. I never said that whenever I see injustice I stand up and speak out against it. In fact, I never even commented on the specific bar that was banning foreigners brought up here. All I said was that people had a right to feel that it was wrong and to say so on an internet message board. Since you like using my words, please stop 'paraphrasing' and actually find anything close to what you say I said.
I actually don't care that the bar banned these people. I mean, it's wrong and everything but there are bigger fish to fry and if a bar doesn't want me I'll go elsewhere. I'm not black and it's not 1955 Alabama...
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1. In this particular instance I feel that it's cowardly. If Mr. Steelrails feels that that it is something else... then that's HIS opinion and not mine.
2. This is what you actually said "We, as humans, have an idea of justice and when we see it being violated some of us speak out."
So you are right you never came right out and said "Whenever I see injustice I stand up and speak about it." But given the above former quote it clearly implies the latter. The alternative would make no sense.
And as for this little gem
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| But if others feel it's wrong and want to say so, you nor SR nor the other apologists here get to tell them they're wrong for doing so. |
So if someone feels it's wrong they get to say so? Fine then if I and Mr. Steelrails and the other apologists feel that it's wrong for them to say so, then we get to tell them they are.
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. 
Actually I kid I kid. What we are doing is not telling them they are wrong for doing so but that they are doing so for the wrong reasons.
Big difference. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Sep 27, 2012 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
[q
3) I know you're trying desperately to find some way to prove I'm a hypocrite, and I suppose I am in many ways (aren't we all?). But you're just grasping at straws here. Again, you're starting from a conclusion: "Mr. BC doesn't object to discrimination against Koreans!" and then working your way backwards: "Mr. BC has started a revolution against Koreans discriminating against foreigners!" When in reality neither is true. I stated several times that I don't really care about this particular case, but in the larger picture I hate seeing Itaewon lose it's charm. I've also stated that if people do have a problem with this bar they're free to vent that frustration on the internet.
I'm just so confused by you guys. SR is saying posting something here is some overt political act that we have no right to engage in. UM chimes in and says it's a cowardly anonymous act and we should be out in the streets fighting for what we believe in You're both saying I'm trying to be some internet revolutionary simply because I said people can complain about whatever they want, yet you guys have no problem using this site to complain (and attempt to feel superior to) other foreigners. You guys should really get your stories straight. |
As regards 3 and 4.
3. (see bolded part) I love how you object to me paraphrasing you and yet here you are doing the same thing...what's a word that means someone who objects to behavior in others yet engages in it himself?
It begins with H....it's on the tip of my tongue...just can't seem to remember it...
4. Get our stories straight? What? For the umpteenth time...we are different people and we have different views.
For someone who objects to paraphrasing one would think you would object even more strenuously to outright fabrications. (see bolded part)
[
I never said any such thing nor implied it. What was that you were saying about getting stories straight again? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:10 am Post subject: |
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| rowdie3 wrote: |
I live in Itaewon and this is definitely something that I've noticed especially in the last year. I think it is due to the bloggers. I was in Gecko's over the holidays and pretty much every table was full of groups of Koreans. Lunch time is the same - hardly a foreigner to be seen in the place. It's getting to the point where restaurants have waiting lists especially on the weekends.
I miss the old Itaewon before the boom. I guess we do need to find a new hangout.  |
I kind of expected that to happen. I'm not sure what to think of it. Certain Koreans popularized Itaewon through song and blogs. I remember when I first went to Itaewon back in 2006, and the foreigners there clearly outnumbered the Koreans. Fast forward to 2012, and it's the other way around. I saw Itaewon as a way to kind of have a breather while I was in Korea. It's good to have Koreans who like to interact with foreigners and seem to genuinely want to, but those who shut themselves off or who are strange are not what's needed for the area to thrive culturally. You need quality joints and people of all backgrounds. That goes without saying.
Itaewon has improved in some ways. I've always liked Itaewon. Some were ashamed to admit it, but I never was ashamed to do so. |
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jennykwon
Joined: 19 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:52 am Post subject: |
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| Some online group ('seoul english party') has big Friday events in Itaewon. |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
2. This is what you actually said "We, as humans, have an idea of justice and when we see it being violated some of us speak out."
So you are right you never came right out and said "Whenever I see injustice I stand up and speak about it." But given the above former quote it clearly implies the latter. The alternative would make no sense.
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Now you suggest that because I support freedom of speech I must support everything everyone says? What an odd perspective. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
2. This is what you actually said "We, as humans, have an idea of justice and when we see it being violated some of us speak out."
So you are right you never came right out and said "Whenever I see injustice I stand up and speak about it." But given the above former quote it clearly implies the latter. The alternative would make no sense.
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Now you suggest that because I support freedom of speech I must support everything everyone says? What an odd perspective. |
I agree. It is an odd perspective since I never suggested anything of the kind.
That's the second time you've inaccurately paraphrased me AFTER asking me not to do so to you.
I was nice enough to honor your request...how about you do so as well?
But getting back to the post are you suggesting that when you (personally) see injustice that you DON'T speak out about it? Because that sounds pretty odd (to use your term) in conjunction with this remark.
quote]We, as humans, have an idea of justice and when we see it being violated some of us speak out."[/quote] |
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Mr. BlackCat
Joined: 30 Nov 2005
Location: Insert witty remark HERE
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| Posted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
2. This is what you actually said "We, as humans, have an idea of justice and when we see it being violated some of us speak out."
So you are right you never came right out and said "Whenever I see injustice I stand up and speak about it." But given the above former quote it clearly implies the latter. The alternative would make no sense.
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Now you suggest that because I support freedom of speech I must support everything everyone says? What an odd perspective. |
I agree. It is an odd perspective since I never suggested anything of the kind.
That's the second time you've inaccurately paraphrased me AFTER asking me not to do so to you.
I was nice enough to honor your request...how about you do so as well?
But getting back to the post are you suggesting that when you (personally) see injustice that you DON'T speak out about it? Because that sounds pretty odd (to use your term) in conjunction with this remark.
quote]We, as humans, have an idea of justice and when we see it being violated some of us speak out." |
[/quote]
My original post said that when some people see injustice they speak out, and they have a right to. You said that this implies that when I see injustice I speak out. I took that to mean that I speak out when others perceive injustice. I guess I misunderstood you. I suppose that happens when you state that one statement implies something completely different (again to prove a conclusion you have about me before this conversation even started).
Anyway, I don`t speak out every time I see injustice. I`ve already stated that this would be exhausting. I see it every day in varying ways. I see homeless people, women being held back at work and at home, people of various races being profiled by authorities. I see kids come to school with shoes so old their toes are sticking out while others have phones that cost more than my salary.
If we`re not allowed to comment on any injustice simply because we don`t speak out on every injustice then no one would fight for anything. So no, I don`t have a board in my house that keeps score to make sure that I have an equal number of outrages against discriminations against Koreans as I do against foreigners because that is stupid and impossible. But your line of reasoning is the same as those who say people shouldn`t protect animals until every human is taken care of, and they shouldn`t fight for orphans in Africa until every person in their own country is taken care of, and they shouldn`t care about people of that race until everyone of their own race is taken care of, and they shouldn`t...
Which goes back to the point. You, or SR or anyone else, don`t have the right to tell people what to feel about anything. You can disagree on the facts but not on what they feel. People can have whatever opinion they want about Korea and even Koreans. You don`t have a monopoly on it. You don`t have a unique perspective on it. You don`t have the only `right`answers. |
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mike1two
Joined: 20 Aug 2012
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| People, stop your griping (and your racism) and go home. Is Korea the only place you can find a job? |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mr. BlackCat wrote: |
[..
Which goes back to the point. You, or SR or anyone else, don`t have the right to tell people what to feel about anything. You can disagree on the facts but not on what they feel. |
This was already covered several posts ago. Here, I'll bold the relevant point just for you.
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
So if someone feels it's wrong they get to say so? Fine then if I and Mr. Steelrails and the other apologists feel that it's wrong for them to say so, then we get to tell them they are.
What's sauce for the goose is sauce for the gander. Twisted Evil
Actually I kid I kid. What we are doing is not telling them they are wrong for doing so but that they are doing so for the wrong reasons.
Big difference. |
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rkc76sf
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:55 pm Post subject: |
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Talk about hijacking the forum, how the topic went from Itaewon to some injustice is beyond me.
I was in Itaewon when the BK was on the corner before Coldstone (where the guy got murdered in the bathroom) and there was no subway line for itaewon, I had to take a taxi from Namyoung station. Honestly, I can't remember a whole lot of a difference, I never paid much attention to the number of Koreans or foreigners. It's way cleaner than it used to be, I'll say that. |
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NohopeSeriously
Joined: 17 Jan 2011
Location: The Christian Right-Wing Educational Republic of Korea
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 6:51 am Post subject: |
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From what I heard, the Yongsan Military Base will be closed. There's a lot of redevelopment going on over there for domestic South Koreans. It will be the next Gangnam from what I heard.
It's time to form some new expat communities in Seoul or around Seoul. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 10:53 pm Post subject: |
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Itaewon has always been a bit cruddy but it still remains the only place where you can get a good pint without having to buy overpriced side dishes. If you do want to eat, then where else can you get steak 'n' cheese sandwich and a pint of Guinness?
As long as that stays the same, then I don't mind who else chooses to go there. |
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refugee
Joined: 17 Jun 2011
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Fucking 1st world problems.
There's people starving to death all over the world, fighting for freedom from oppression in Syria, dying of diseases we have readily available, affordable treatments for and you're complaining that you might get a side order of pickles or kimchi with your Taco Bell.
We are the fortunate few, chill the *beep* out until you have a real problem! |
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toby99
Joined: 28 Aug 2009
Location: Dong-Incheon-by-the-sea, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| cj1976 wrote: |
Itaewon has always been a bit cruddy but it still remains the only place where you can get a good pint without having to buy overpriced side dishes. If you do want to eat, then where else can you get steak 'n' cheese sandwich and a pint of Guinness?
As long as that stays the same, then I don't mind who else chooses to go there. |
Agreed; I sometimes just want to belly up, grab a brew or three, maybe a plate of loaded nachos or some wings (if I want), and watch the game without having to buy a plate of rotten cabbage and tofu while listening to adjosshis hock loogies into ash trays with incessant 'kunbae!' calls. |
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cj1976
Joined: 26 Oct 2005
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| Posted: Tue Oct 09, 2012 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| toby99 wrote: |
| cj1976 wrote: |
Itaewon has always been a bit cruddy but it still remains the only place where you can get a good pint without having to buy overpriced side dishes. If you do want to eat, then where else can you get steak 'n' cheese sandwich and a pint of Guinness?
As long as that stays the same, then I don't mind who else chooses to go there. |
Agreed; I sometimes just want to belly up, grab a brew or three, maybe a plate of loaded nachos or some wings (if I want), and watch the game without having to buy a plate of rotten cabbage and tofu while listening to adjosshis hock loogies into ash trays with incessant 'kunbae!' calls. |
Korean drinking culture is fun on the odd occasion, but there is nothing like having a few relaxing brews and some idle chat rather than slamming a Cass-soju cocktail every 10 minutes, surrounded by the smell of garlic and cigarettes. |
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