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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
http://www.rjkoehler.com/2009/02/04/atek-interview-with-prof-benjamin-wagner/
For the ankle grabbers and pucker ups:
Note this interview, from a barbarian blogger who admits he's bit of an apologist himself, with Benjamin Wagner.
As the uneducated redneck Wagner asserts, no racism with Korean visa requirements!  |
Ah yes Ben Wagner's crusade to get the visa requirements changed so that one day later they are re-instituted, only this time under 'proper' principles.
Let's face it that is exactly what all of this will amount to.
Unless you believe that things like drug tests and criminal background checks are uniquely Korean. Companies and governments are allowed to do such things.
However Ben Wagner has done a great job of getting his name in the papers.
Call me when he is actually going to do something that will substantively change my life and then I might care.
BTW there is a difference between racism and discrimination and his case for racism is unconvincing. The very fact that there are different visas is 'discriminatory'. So is the concept of credit and state certification. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Call me when he is actually going to do something that will substantively change my life and then I might care.
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Since Ben Wagner (presumably through only his own efforts) would be the person substantially changing your life wouldn't it make more sense for you to call him directly?
Maybe my phone etiquette is slipping or something, but c'mon. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 20, 2010 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
[q
However Ben Wagner has done a great job of getting his name in the papers.
Call me when he is actually going to do something that will substantively change my life and then I might care.
BTW there is a difference between racism and discrimination and his case for racism is unconvincing. The very fact that there are different visas is 'discriminatory'. So is the concept of credit and state certification. |
This^
As for calling him, give me his phone number and I will be among the first to congratulate him when he actually DOES something. Until then I'll have to see Mr. Wagner's crusade from the viewpoint that he simply enjoys seeing his name in the papers. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Good grief...rails and his lapdog/poodle Myth have actually become parodies of themselves  !
Sure, cast aspersions on Wagner's motives. Why not? I mean, what other reason could there be for the countless hours that man has put in on behalf of his crusade(a noble one, I might add)?
Of course. He was wants his name in the papers! Especially ROK papers! 
He probably grew up with that lofty ambition. Well, haven't we all?
One can attribute most activities(as rails has stated in his infinite wisdom)to a deep, unwavering desire to see one's name in the media. Why, I'm sure that's why Russell Williams did what he did. And Lord knows, he's had enough press for the last 8 months. 
Maybe rails is on to something. That 15 mins. of fame & all that. I guess that might be what motivates rails. It certainly can't be the fact that rails is unhappy in Korea. Nosiree bob. Like the "silent majority" of NTs, with whom he is intimately familiar with, rails is enjoying the Korean experience so much that you can count on him to post continuously, weekdays/weekends, in an immediate fashion, be it midnight or 6 a.m.
I joined Dave's in '03. Rails joined in '09. His post record runs to 203 pages. Mine? 89 pages. Hmmmmm....
Neither Tweedledum/Tweedledee of the apologistas are worthy to carry Wagner's lunch pail, let alone his intellectual briefcase and moral compass. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
Good grief...rails and his lapdog/poodle Myth have actually become parodies of themselves !
Sure, cast aspersions on Wagner's motives. Why not? I mean, what other reason could there be for the countless hours that man has put in on behalf of his crusade(a noble one, I might add)?
Of course. He was wants his name in the papers! Especially ROK papers!
He probably grew up with that lofty ambition. Well, haven't we all?
One can attribute most activities(as rails has stated in his infinite wisdom)to a deep, unwavering desire to see one's name in the media. Why, I'm sure that's why Russell Williams did what he did. And Lord knows, he's had enough press for the last 8 months.
Maybe rails is on to something. That 15 mins. of fame & all that. I guess that might be what motivates rails. It certainly can't be the fact that rails is unhappy in Korea. Nosiree bob. Like the "silent majority" of NTs, with whom he is intimately familiar with, rails is enjoying the Korean experience so much that you can count on him to post continuously, weekdays/weekends, in an immediate fashion, be it midnight or 6 a.m.
I joined Dave's in '03. Rails joined in '09. His post record runs to 203 pages. Mine? 89 pages. Hmmmmm....
Neither Tweedledum/Tweedledee of the apologistas are worthy to carry Wagner's lunch pail, let alone his intellectual briefcase and moral compass. |
Keep on posting Mosley. The more you post, the better I look. |
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Easy Rider
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 6:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
| Mosley wrote: |
Good grief...rails and his lapdog/poodle Myth have actually become parodies of themselves !
Sure, cast aspersions on Wagner's motives. Why not? I mean, what other reason could there be for the countless hours that man has put in on behalf of his crusade(a noble one, I might add)?
Of course. He was wants his name in the papers! Especially ROK papers!
He probably grew up with that lofty ambition. Well, haven't we all?
One can attribute most activities(as rails has stated in his infinite wisdom)to a deep, unwavering desire to see one's name in the media. Why, I'm sure that's why Russell Williams did what he did. And Lord knows, he's had enough press for the last 8 months.
Maybe rails is on to something. That 15 mins. of fame & all that. I guess that might be what motivates rails. It certainly can't be the fact that rails is unhappy in Korea. Nosiree bob. Like the "silent majority" of NTs, with whom he is intimately familiar with, rails is enjoying the Korean experience so much that you can count on him to post continuously, weekdays/weekends, in an immediate fashion, be it midnight or 6 a.m.
I joined Dave's in '03. Rails joined in '09. His post record runs to 203 pages. Mine? 89 pages. Hmmmmm....
Neither Tweedledum/Tweedledee of the apologistas are worthy to carry Wagner's lunch pail, let alone his intellectual briefcase and moral compass. |
Keep on posting Mosley. The more you post, the better I look. |
Completely dissagree.
Have been amused by your and The Urban Myths apologist schtcik this week as a lot of students have tests so have been browsing this site a lot. At first I thought it was some kind of troll effort / joke. I think with The Urban Myth it is, but not with you.
Mosely might be a little roughshod but your posturing 'make me look better' - as though anyone cares - and your incessant apologist tracts which often border on the absurd and seem as pathologically desperate as they are prolific (not as bad as the Urban Myth's, but still) make you seem like a cartoon character (like your avatar.) One will notice all of the aplogists have avatars designed to wind up the viewer (Myth's most of all, Captain Corea's pompous costumed clown, and that madoka creature's is just designed to irritate.)
Well that's all I wanted to say, hope that wasn't a tos violation and mods please inform me if it is so I know what the limits are. Thanks. Just wanted to post this as it seems there is a 'gang' of posters who jump on and persecute anyone who has the slightest rational criticism of Korea - and even it's noodles! And whilst they may imply their distain in short snappy comments like Steelrail's quoted here, I prefer to just be upfront. |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Fri Oct 22, 2010 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Easy Rider wrote: |
Have been amused by your and The Urban Myths apologist schtcik this week as a lot of students have tests so have been browsing this site a lot. At first I thought it was some kind of troll effort / joke. I think with The Urban Myth it is, but not with you.
Mosely might be a little roughshod but your posturing 'make me look better' - as though anyone cares - and your incessant apologist tracts which often border on the absurd and seem as pathologically desperate as they are prolific (not as bad as the Urban Myth's, but still) make you seem like a cartoon character (like your avatar.) One will notice all of the aplogists have avatars designed to wind up the viewer (Myth's most of all, Captain Corea's pompous costumed clown, and that madoka creature's is just designed to irritate.)
Well that's all I wanted to say, hope that wasn't a tos violation and mods please inform me if it is so I know what the limits are. Thanks. Just wanted to post this as it seems there is a 'gang' of posters who jump on and persecute anyone who has the slightest rational criticism of Korea - and even it's noodles! And whilst they may imply their distain in short snappy comments like Steelrail's quoted here, I prefer to just be upfront. |
I don't think you can call Mosley's post rational.
Vagabundo is rational, Z-Man was rational, Old Gil was rational, geldedgoat is rational, Tomato is quirky but ultimately rational. 90% of the so called 'bashers' are rational, or at the very least able to write a coherent post. Gwangjuboy and I, I feel, were being perfectly rational in the last few posts. Essentially we were agreeing each other and were on the same chapter if not on the same page.
Mosley....
Are you seriously wondering why people get offended by people posting "All Koreans are stupid/wife-beaters/racists/borg drones/etc. etc."
Funny, though, I think both sides sometimes lapse into this, although I try to avoid it, is that we often get this 'psychology angle' instead of arguing about the substance of things. Once that happens the dialogue has broken down.
That's not rational criticism.
Rational criticism differentiates between individuals and groups. But apparently a drunken ajosshi one encounters is 'Korean Culture'.
Rational criticism first examines if the issue in question takes place in other countries before citing it as a 'Korean' problem. However pointing this out causes bashers to get positively apoplectic.
Rational criticism advocates a course of action beyond 'the opposite of what is happening now.' But much of the criticism here is of 'Korea goes left, they should have gone right. What? Korea went right? Well they should have gone left.'
Rational criticism doesn't involve magic-wand solutions or expect perfect behavior from an entire nation at all times.
Rational criticism is humble and keeps an open mind to alternative explanations. It does not presume that ones position is innately superior. Rather it notices a problem and postulates a reason as to why it might be like that and suggest measures as to fixing it. But it keeps an open mind.
Also, get this- It's okay for us to disagree with you and voice it!
Just as you see bashing as "venting" and alright. I may view such things as "unhealthy" and that there are better ways to deal with stress.
Well I guess maybe I'm venting too? Maybe my way is unhealthy as well. But if my way is, then certainly the venting bash posts must be also. And if I had to choose, I would choose to vent in defense of people rather than in accusation and condemnation of them.
As for my avatar- it's good ol Jolyon Wagg from the Adventures of Tintin. Maybe I should have gone with Captain Haddock or Calculus. JKelly80, a notorious basher (and a good guy), had a very antagonizing avatar as I recall. I even gave him grief over it long ago. But it wasn't so bad.
I point this out because with bias, we see what we want to see, not necessarily how things are.
I will say that I've changed avatars like 10 times so far on Dave''s ranging from the Arnolfini Wedding portrait to a scene from A Raisin in the Sun to Confederate General E.P. Alexander to A Clip from Conan O'Brien to The Rich Book of Hours- month appropriate to a painting by De La Tour and more.
But yes, its time for a change. Wagg has been on there for over two months. Thanks for pointing that out. Off to change it now. Comment on the new one if you care to. Or not. |
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Easy Rider
Joined: 20 Oct 2010
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 12:47 pm Post subject: |
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So in short Komerican all you have to say is
la la la la la (a lot of hot air)
I think my apolotroll points are valid and plus -
I will talk loud and say NOTHING - NADA
For a whole sheet of A4.
Why?
Why are you the way you are? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sat Oct 23, 2010 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Easy Rider wrote: |
So in short Komerican all you have to say is
la la la la la (a lot of hot air)
I think my apolotroll points are valid and plus -
I will talk loud and say NOTHING - NADA
For a whole sheet of A4.
Why?
Why are you the way you are? |
So your point is?
I'm an apologist and a troll.
Why? Because I disagree?
Well, instead of yaking about me, why don't you yak about he topic at hand.
Instead of writing how my points are bad, please offer some suggestions of your own on how to fix things. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 24, 2010 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Easy Rider wrote: |
[q
Have been amused by your and The Urban Myths apologist schtcik this week as a lot of students have tests so have been browsing this site a lot. At first I thought it was some kind of troll effort / joke. I think with The Urban Myth it is, but not with you.
. |
I joined in 2003...you joined in this month. That makes you the more likely candidate for a troll effort/joke.
Next time actually think about what you post before typing it. Could help. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Oct 25, 2010 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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Sure, Stool, I'll keep posting...to make you look good.
I'll have to take it easy, though, on using writing devices like figures of speech, sarcasm, etc. Far too much for your 10 yr. Korean "Christian" Church experience to absorb. True Believers ARE literal minded, aren't they?
Carry on, me apologist mate.
And, it's gotten to the point where, given all the arguments I've handed back to your butt on a platter, your contradictions, your refusal to answer point-blank direct Qs(not just on this thread), your...oh, never mind. It's just that I've gotten to the point where I'm actually(assuming you're not a troll)starting to feel sorry for you...even though you're in the thralls of the Korean "experience"....
See, rails, it's called "loving your enemies". Take it back to the congregation....  |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Wed Oct 27, 2010 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
Good grief...rails and his lapdog/poodle Myth have actually become parodies of themselves !
Sure, cast aspersions on Wagner's motives. Why not? I mean, what other reason could there be for the countless hours that man has put in on behalf of his crusade(a noble one, I might add)?
Of course. He was wants his name in the papers! Especially ROK papers!
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Have you Mr. Mosley...or anyone else who supports Wagner...given serious thought to what is almost certainly likely to happen SHOULD Wagner be successful?
His whole schtick was based on the claim that the E-2 visa regulations were a violation of human rights. Let's assume for the moment that the KHRC had backed his claim.
Immigration is not likely to drop the requirements wholesale as that would be a massive loss of face. But they could simply move the requirements off-shore thus doing a nice and legal end-run around this hypothetical KHRC ruling.
The problem with this then is that each and every E-2 teacher in Korea would then have to spend several thousand dollars that they wouldn't have under the current regs.
(A) They would have to fly back home in order to get the medical check.
(B) The accommodations and food needed while doing this.
(C) The medical check (likely more expensive then here)
(D) The flight back to Korea.
All those expenses for each and every E-2 teacher...just because one guy got a bee in his bonnet.
Of course I can see why YOU don't care...you're not in Korea. What do you care if we have to spend 3-4 thousand dollars each?
But a consideration of these facts should give the rest of us who will be affected some pause before jumping on the Wagner bandwagon. |
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Mosley
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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Good Grief! Lay off the "Mr." part! That implies you have respect for me ... and the world knows you don't have a whit of it! I don't have a whit of it for you, so why should you have a tidbit of it for me? 
1) The Korean Human Rights Commission!? Is there such a creature?! Oh, sweet irony! What's in a name, eh?
2)So...and let me get this straight...because the esteemed Urban Myth says it is so ...it is so! "Just because ONE guy got a bee a in his bonnet.!" You betcha, mate ... only one Westerner in the last 2 decades got POed at Korean racist BS.
3) Wagner is AGAINST discrimination : So, the ''Myth"(WIAN?) blames HIM for a "potential" situation where(and this is bizarre)a potential NT arrives in Korea and spends a crapload of his own dough(3-4 grand? Holly Cow!) just to ... be there? Why would anyone, as Myth puts it, spend all that money just to end up in Korea? Why, if I were to be POed about it, I'd complain to the ROK powers that be...
But, hey that's just me... |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Thu Oct 28, 2010 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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Yes Wagner's great crusade against the HIV Checks and CBCs that if they are altered to fit in line with 'human rights standards' will be exactly the same as before.
The only difference is Koreans will have to go through them as well.
That changes nothing as far as me. Hate to break it to anyone out there but CBCs and Drug Tests are not going anywhere. And if you are worried about a HIV check, well you got bigger problems.
All this energy on something that does nothing to change my situation. What a waste.
My goodness, so we have to take a check and a Korean person doesn't. Am I the only one who thinks "Big Deal?" On the scale of crap one gets in life if that is the worst thing that happens to you (enough to write articles in the paper and spend hours blogging about it) then consider yourself not just lucky, but spoiled. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 31, 2010 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| Mosley wrote: |
3) Wagner is AGAINST discrimination : So, the ''Myth"(WIAN?) blames HIM for a "potential" situation where(and this is bizarre)a potential NT arrives in Korea and spends a crapload of his own dough(3-4 grand? Holly Cow!) just to ... be there? Why would anyone, as Myth puts it, spend all that money just to end up in Korea? Why, if I were to be POed about it, I'd complain to the ROK powers that be...
But, hey that's just me... |
What ARE you on about? I was not talking about a potential NT, I was talking about the NETS ALREADY HERE. They'd have to spend all that money if the tests were moved off-shore.
And the tests are here to stay BTW because as the Immigration spokesperson in an article in another thread pointed out...the parents support these tests.
So if Wagner were successful they could only move the tests off-shore..can't cancel them as parents want these tests kept. And then each and every teacher on a E-2 would have to spend thousands of dollars flying from and back to Korea. It is fairly obvious that is what you want to happen. Which means nobody should listen to a word you say. |
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