|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
|
 Posted: Wed Mar 23, 2005 1:08 am Post subject: Re: feminism in Korea |
 |
|
| deffo wrote: |
| They've fully and successfully industrialised. They've got planes, they've got trains, they've got automobiles. They've got Jesus, they've got bread, they've got wine. Plastic surgery is their most accomplished art form. But top of the list of "Great Evils of the Wicked Western World" that our gracious hosts have failed to fully ingest has to be, for my money, feminism. |
But for the Jesus comment, you could be talking about Japan. Not to sidetrack the thread, but how is it that people for whom such things matter expect more from Korean women than from their counterparts in the world's second largest economy? And a country more similar to Korea than any other, though of course more fully & successfully industrialised than Korea, and a society that's had far more years -- no, make that generations -- to ingest all those evils of the Western world.
| Quote: |
In my whole time here (ooh, all of 1.5 years) I've met only one Korean woman (or man) whom I'd describe as a "feminist"...
...what I don't see is these tritely expressed disaffections being converted into concrete action. |
If someone finds the lack of a feminist movement here (homegrown or imported) so bizarre and irksome, what must you or feminists anywhere possibly make of place like Japan, I wonder. Is that country too big, too successful, too troubling or unhelpful an aberration to ponder?
Yeah, yeah, I know this is a Korea forum, but I'm curious, and I think a comparison of both these countries would be helpful in better understanding the one.
*EDIT* -- Oh yes, Blind Willie joked to the effect that the white boys in Korea prefer their K-girls submissive and docile and don't want feminists running around upsetting the established order. Well, true enough in lots of cases. But I'll tell you something I find rather interesting.
We have only a handful of clients in Japan, but all of them are either run by a woman or the manager of the department we deal with directly is a woman. That's not so remarkable, as women are running a growing number of companies in Korea, too. BUT, in every single Japanese case (I'm only talking about a total of 5), the woman has a very strange-sounding Japanese surname... for instance, "Stevenson", "Girard," "Harris" and others like that. Whatever else that might mean, it does suggest that many of us really didn't come to East Asia just to star in our own version of Madame Butterfly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 2:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
| The Bobster wrote: |
casey's moon
| Quote: |
| It's kind of annoying, because this thread could have been a lot more interesting. You, MOS, Blind Willie, Tommynomad and YBM (the bum suck guy), and possibly others I've missed had differing but relevant opinions on the topic from the male point of view. |
Very good point and it had occurred to me before. Let's go back to the guy whose comments started things off in the early pages. Something tells me he'll be a much more fruitful fella to discuss feminisms lacks, if any such there may be ...
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| feminism assumes that feminists have a monopoly over how the debate about equality is defined. It pays lip service to the idea of equality, but is an inherently sexist mindset. |
This is actually worth discussing, and I hope MOS comes back just long enough to elaborate on it a bit.
[quote/] |
Why thank you, Bob. ** bows ** 
What I said before:
| Quote: |
I honestly don't equate feminism with development or social equality, because I believe feminism is inherently sexist. It preaches the pursuit of equality, while in practice presumes that wom...no, feminists alone...have a monopoly on deciding how equality is to be achieved. It generally discounts men's ways of looking at the world, men's experiences, and men's perspectives on equality. Regardless of whatever dictionary definition there is of it.
Any belief system or set of ideas can be judged not only by what it espouses in theory, but also either by a) how the proponents of that theory succeed or fail in implementing it, or by b) the results, good or bad, of attempting to implement that theory in the real world. Is Marxism to be judged merely by what it espouses, or by what's happened in the 20th century when proponents of it have tried to implement it in Russia, China and North Korea? My opinion is that Marxism in theory is based on a 19th century understanding of economics, and in practice leads inevitably to Kim Il-Sungism.
Surely that's a valid viewpoint, even if some disagree with it.
Feminism espouses gender equality, but in practice arbitrarily assumes that only women's experiences, women's ways of looking at the world, are valid. If equality is good, why are women's perspectives on equality arbitrarily more important than men's? In practice, feminism means that the perspectives of half the human species will always be discounted as unimportant. That's sexist. And inevitably will lead back to ineqality.
Logically, if one believes in equality, then men's perspectives on how equality is to be achieved are just as valid as women's, and men's concerns about situations when and where men have less opportunities than women are as equally important. But because feminism generally examines equality issues only from a female viewpoint, it generally discounts the observations and concerns men have about equality as being less important, less valid. I'm sure a lot of feminists believe in equality (although not a few of them believe in superiority) with men, but they believe even more strongly that they have a monopoly on how equality is to be defined and achieved. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
crazylemongirl
Joined: 23 Mar 2003
Location: almost there...
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 3:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
I think that one of the by products of feminism is that by questioning gender roles and sterotypes of women it has change the way that men function in society. For instance 50 years ago it was unheard of for fathers to stay home and moms to go off to work. Infact the korean teachers at my school are astounded that my dad looked after myself when I was a baby and mom went off to work.
Anyway getting this idea of multiplicity of viewpoints. First up feminism is at heart a political philsophy it's their to advance the interests of one group women (similarly socialism favors workers and captalist ideologies tend to be concerned with the owners of captalism). Having said that I don't think that the end goal of feminsim is to have a matriarchy. Indeed that would be a similar situation as what happened in south africa where the opressors skin color changed but tmany of the fundmentals as to why the majority of blacks live in poverty have not.
So in order to achieve gender equality the views of men have to be achieved. However many femisnists would argue that while there is still a patriarchy a true dialogue can not take place as those with the power call the shots.
I actually think that discourses like this are like a pendulum. They swing radically from one extreme to another before eventually evening out as ideas are contested from both sides in order to come up with a balanced solution for both groups. So in order to achieve gender equality the status of both genders need to be bought into the dialogue in order to achieve it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
JongnoGuru
Joined: 25 May 2004
Location: peeing on your doorstep
|
| Posted: Sun Mar 27, 2005 4:33 am Post subject: |
|
|
Page 15 
Any thread can meander, and most do a bit. But if this thread had stayed focused on feminism in Korea, how many pages might it be now? I'm guessing two.. Three? Four, tops. Even allowing for the "DW effect", this is remarkable. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
