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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Just because its played doesnt make it a sport.
Hapki, whats the most popular sport in Las Vegas? Black Jack, poker or roulette? And I think you are the kind to call computer gamers "e-atheletes". |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 5:33 pm Post subject: |
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| inspector gadget wrote: |
Whats the scoop Jinju?????
Tell me, what are the other sports out there.
What about all the sports I mentioned in my last post.
you challenge that golf is not a sport, nor is hockey, football, basketball and baseball.
What gives with your rationale, fill me in.
Curious minds want to know all there is about the world of sports according to the great JINJU. |
I dont think I ever said hockey isnt a sport. I called it a LAME sport but I dont think I denied it is a sport. Footbal..its a toss up. Some of the positions are athletic, some are not. Im on the fence there. baseball too. |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Golf loses out to football, baseball and bball in every poll. Only 5% said golf was their favorite. Keep in mind that the poll listed pro and college bball and football separately and golf still came behind all of them. If you add the pro and college bball together, it's way ahead of golf with football even further ahead. Looking at the last poll, only 27% are a fan of golf-exactly half of the 54% who are fans of pro football and still well behind both pro and college bball (not to mention figure skating and auto racing). Only 4% chose golf as their favorite sport to watch. That's one seventh as popular as football (28%), one fourth as popular as bball (16%) and one third as popular as baseball (12%). |
Perhaps you are having trouble reading. I'm coming from the position of those that play the sport. I've shown that over 30 million Americans played golf in 2005. That's about 1 out of 10. In comparison, 1 million high school basketball players, and a liberal estimate of 1 million college. Add in adult leagues and organized games. I don't think it reaches 30 million, but feel free to try and show me that it does.
There is a reason why sports like basketball, baseball and football are called "spectator sports." It's because a lot of people watch them. Thus very popular with T.V. viewers. But you must concede that not all those T.V. viewers also play the game. Your average fat a$$, armchair, beer drinking sports fan isn't out there on the court, field or diamond playing the game. Some are, of course. But the Viewer number will always be much higher.
Golf, on the other hand, is the sport of the masses. Those same fat a$$, armchair beer drinkers sports fans that watch golf also play it , to the ratio of near 1:1. Heck, even a lot of golfers don't like to watch it on T.V. Why watch when you can play, right?
This thread is about sports icon. In my opinion, the icon of your choosing should give you inspiration in your respective sport, to help you play better and advance further. Sure, spectator sports are popular and have a lot a T.V viewers. But the number drops down a lot when you look at those that play the game. In golf this number doesn't decrease. Thus it remains a leading candidate as the sport of players, not watchers. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| You are using the wrong nomenclature Hapki. Just because something is played doesnt make it a sport. Golf is as much a sport as roulette. Just because its popular in las Vegas doesnt make it a sport there. Just because golf is popular in the US doesnt make it a sport there either. Its a GAME like darts, chess or shuffleboard. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 7:48 pm Post subject: |
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I think that originally the term referred to competive activities based on physical prowess, but in modern times the definition of sport has been broadened to include what are mainly games of skill:
1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc.
BTW, doesn't "jinju" look rather fat in his avatar picture? |
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gang ah jee
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: city of paper
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 8:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| 1. an athletic activity requiring skill or physical prowess and often of a competitive nature, as racing, baseball, tennis, golf, bowling, wrestling, boxing, hunting, fishing, etc. |
Is that from the vedas? I don't trust any definitions that aren't from the vedas. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sun Sep 10, 2006 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Well, Federer won the US Open and really, I dont see how anyone can make a case for Tiger in light of what Federer has been doing over the last 3 years and wha he is most likely to continue doing for the next 5 years. The man is simply unbelievable.
25 years old.
- He just won the 3rd Grand Slam of the year. for what, the 2nd year in a row?
- he now has 9 grand slams to his name
- this year at Grand slams he is 27-1, the one los in the final of the French Open. This is domination unparalleled by anything Tiger could ever approach.
- He has won 9 of the last 14 grand slams, which is a 64% success rate.
- Federer is 9-1 in GS finals, the man just doesnt lose when he gets to the end.
Roger Federer at 25 is just now entering his prime. In 5 years he will eclips all tennis records. Tiger isnt assured of that and he wont eclipse records by the marging Federer will.
Oh, and golf isnt a sport. |
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inspector gadget
Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Location: jeollanam-do in the boonies
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Jinju, nobody on this thread has said that Federer is not a great athlete, arguably he is the best ever at his sport. I am certain that when he calls it quites that will be the case.
I just watched a very interesting interview of Federer, on CNN. As you may or may not know Federer invited Tiger to came and watch the finals of the US open and Tiger was there cheering him on.
Federer said he was thrilled to have Tiger there in his camp and enjoyed finally meeting him after in the locker room.
federer said that he was nervous, near the end of the match because Tiger was there watching.
The interviewer then asked federer how he was going to get back at tiger. He said well I am going to watch him at a major, I have never been to a tournament but would love to go and watch. he then says my parents play alot of golf and I play a little bit but "I love the sport"
Try and catch the highlights on World Sport today and see what Federer has to say about the sport of golf , he says "I love the SPORT".
What do you think of that, does federer know what it takes for something to be considered a sport.
Have fun watching that clip, I did, as I enjoyed relaying that message to you hear on this thread..... |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 4:55 am Post subject: |
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Jinju Wrote-
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Well, Federer won the US Open and really, I dont see how anyone can make a case for Tiger in light of what Federer has been doing over the last 3 years and wha he is most likely to continue doing for the next 5 years. The man is simply unbelievable.
25 years old.
- He just won the 3rd Grand Slam of the year. for what, the 2nd year in a row?
- he now has 9 grand slams to his name
- this year at Grand slams he is 27-1, the one los in the final of the French Open. This is domination unparalleled by anything Tiger could ever approach.
- He has won 9 of the last 14 grand slams, which is a 64% success rate.
- Federer is 9-1 in GS finals, the man just doesnt lose when he gets to the end.
Roger Federer at 25 is just now entering his prime. In 5 years he will eclips all tennis records. Tiger isnt assured of that and he wont eclipse records by the marging Federer will. |
Alright Jinju!! You finally bring something worth responding to. Lets do a comparison, shall we?
Pro Career
Tiger- 1996 to present. 10 years
Federer- 1998 to present. 8 years
Winner- Tie (inconclusive)
Major Wins
Tiger- 12
Federer- 9
Both players became pro midseason. Both sports have 4 majors per year.
Tiger- 12/40 = .3 winning percentage. Federer- 9/32 = .28 winning percentage.
Winner- Tiger
Rookie Year
Tiger- Rose to #1 in the world his first full year after turning pro.
Federer- Did not win a tourney till 2001, 3 years after turning pro
Winner- Tiger
Wins
Tiger- 53 PGA wins, 18 international, 71 total
Federer- 41 singles titles
Winner- Tie (inconclusive)
#1 Ranking to Date
Tiger- #1 since June, 2005. 15 months
Federer- #1 since Feb, 2004. 137 weeks
Winner- Federer
#1 Ranking, Total
Tiger- 8 years ranked #1 (assuming 2006)
Federer- 3 years ranked #1 (assuming 2006)
Winner- Tiger
This Year, Majors
Tiger- 2
Federer-3
Winner- Federer
Majors, Final/Final round
Tiger- In all of his 12 major wins, he has either shared in the lead or had the lead out-right going in to the final round. 12-0 on Sunday
Federer- 9-1 in Grand Slam Finals.
Winner- Tiger
Sports Illustrated "Sportman of the Year."
Tiger- 2 times (1996, 2000)
Federer- 0 times
Winner- Tiger
Earning (not including endorsements)
Tiger- $64, 412,000
Federer- $26,346,000
Winner- Tiger (though this is subjective)
Winner
Tiger- 8
Federer- 4
Over-all winner-
Tiger |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Federer's good, no question about it. Potential to re-write tennis record books, no doubt about it. But he really hasn't done anything that hasn't already been done before by the likes of McEnroe, Borg, Connors, Lendl, Agassi, and others.
Only time will tell.
By the way, Jinju, Shumacher announced his retirement today from driving around in circles. Looks like Federer's all you've got left. |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| HapKi wrote: |
| Quote: |
| Golf loses out to football, baseball and bball in every poll. Only 5% said golf was their favorite. Keep in mind that the poll listed pro and college bball and football separately and golf still came behind all of them. If you add the pro and college bball together, it's way ahead of golf with football even further ahead. Looking at the last poll, only 27% are a fan of golf-exactly half of the 54% who are fans of pro football and still well behind both pro and college bball (not to mention figure skating and auto racing). Only 4% chose golf as their favorite sport to watch. That's one seventh as popular as football (28%), one fourth as popular as bball (16%) and one third as popular as baseball (12%). |
Perhaps you are having trouble reading. I'm coming from the position of those that play the sport. I've shown that over 30 million Americans played golf in 2005. That's about 1 out of 10. In comparison, 1 million high school basketball players, and a liberal estimate of 1 million college. Add in adult leagues and organized games. I don't think it reaches 30 million, but feel free to try and show me that it does.
There is a reason why sports like basketball, baseball and football are called "spectator sports." It's because a lot of people watch them. Thus very popular with T.V. viewers. But you must concede that not all those T.V. viewers also play the game. Your average fat a$$, armchair, beer drinking sports fan isn't out there on the court, field or diamond playing the game. Some are, of course. But the Viewer number will always be much higher.
Golf, on the other hand, is the sport of the masses. Those same fat a$$, armchair beer drinkers sports fans that watch golf also play it , to the ratio of near 1:1. Heck, even a lot of golfers don't like to watch it on T.V. Why watch when you can play, right?
This thread is about sports icon. In my opinion, the icon of your choosing should give you inspiration in your respective sport, to help you play better and advance further. Sure, spectator sports are popular and have a lot a T.V viewers. But the number drops down a lot when you look at those that play the game. In golf this number doesn't decrease. Thus it remains a leading candidate as the sport of players, not watchers. |
I don't think I'm the one who is having trouble reading. I do try to read things in context, though. Let's look at your "comparison" and at your sources. Well, the golf source was unobtainable. I'm sure "golfer" is defined as anyone who played golf during the year 2005. You then compare that number to the one million who play bball in high school. But let's see what your wiki source really says:
| Quote: |
| Today virtually every high school in the United States fields a basketball team in varsity competition. Baseketball's popularity remains high, both in rural areas where they carry the identification of the entire community, as well as at some larger schools known for their basketball teams where many players go on to participate at higher levels of competition after graduation. In the 2003�04 season, 1,002,797 boys and girls represented their schools in interscholastic basketball competition, according to the National Federation of State High School |
Now, let's check out that National Federation of State High School source from which Wiki got its info. Here is a press release from them from September, 2005.
http://www.nfhs.org/scriptcontent/Va_custom/vimdisplays/contentpagedisplay.cfm?content_ID=683 Let me quote a couple paragraphs from it:
| Quote: |
Basketball remained the most popular sport for girls with 456,543 participants, followed by outdoor track and field (428,198), volleyball (386,022), fast pitch softball (364,759), soccer (316,104), cross country (170,450), tennis (169,292), swimming and diving (148,154), competitive spirit squads (84,416) and golf (64,245).
On the boys� side, 11-player football was again the most popular sport with 1,045,494 participants, followed by basketball (545,497), outdoor track and field (516,703), baseball (459,717), soccer (354,587), wrestling (243,009), cross country (201,719), golf (161,025), tennis (148,530), and swimming and diving (103,754). |
Hmm. Things change quite a bit when you stop comparing apples and oranges, eh? Now that we are making a fair comparison, let's see what we have. Well, adding up the male and female bball participants we get the 1,002,040 number that was close to the one mentioned. Now, let's compare that with the number of varsity golf participants. Hmm, only 225,270-less than one fourth the number of bball participants. Oh, and golf was the 7th most participated in sport among boys and only the 10th among girls. Most popular? Ha!
More people play bball than just those that play varsity. Take a drive around any town in the US and tell me if you more bball hoops or putting greens in people's yards. According to this source from York College: http://www.ycp.edu/education/2467.htm
| Quote: |
| 26.3 million Americans play golf, 18.2 million Americans play soccer and 45 million Americans play basketball. |
"Sport of the masses?"
Scroll further down on the Wiki article you cited and the following is revealed:
| Quote: |
The cost of an average round of golf is USD $36...
Golf is not a game in which equipment can be comfortably shared. By comparison, 22 people can share one soccer ball and 10 people can share one basketball. Buying or even renting an entire set of golf clubs immediately becomes more expensive.
Playing golf requires paying greens fees to enter a golf course. By comparison, playing soccer or touch-football or basketball at a school field or public playground is free of cost.
Exposure to golf is also not as accessible as other sports. For example, many children will play baseball, hockey, football, soccer in school, and the equipment is provided (often for a registration fee that has been subsidized or sponsored privately). However, few high schools offer a golf program where kids can be exposed to and learn the game at a relatively cheaper price.
Comparing golf to other individual (rather than team) sports, golf is still more expensive. One racquet for a racquet sport (tennis, squash, racquetball) is still much cheaper than a set of clubs, and registration at a racquet club or even a local YMCA for a month can be cheaper than one day at the golf course. Moreover, kids can borrow an old racquet and hit a ball against a school wall for free. It is difficult for a golfer to practice hitting shots longer than short pitch shots unless one pays to play golf or pays to practice at a driving range or indoor golf training facility.
Further, the social status of better (and usually more expensive) equipment cannot be overlooked. Few will notice or care the condition of a baseball glove as long as it can catch a baseball adequately. Similarly, as long as a basketball has enough air to bounce evenly, it's brand name and condition is mostly irrelevant. In order to be outfitted with the latest equipment (including rather expensive clothing, shoes and gloves) one can end up spending quite a sum. Also, greens fees at some of the more picturesque and prestigious courses can be quite sizeable. Again, because golf has become the platform through which business people interact, evaluate each other, and generally talk/negotiate, the quality of one's clubs and dress are an expression of their success.
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You call this the "sport of the masses?" Calling golf the sport of the masses is like calling a stroll mixed with periodic bending to pick up golf balls a feat of athleticism. |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 7:04 am Post subject: |
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| According to the National Golf Foundation, some 30 million Americans now play golf for relaxation, exercise and socializing on an estimated 14,500 courses located throughout the United States. |
http://www.newswise.com/articles/view/522839/
This is the most current source I could find, August 17, 2006
| Quote: |
| More Americans play basketball than any other team sport, not including bowling, according to the National Sporting Goods Association. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sports_in_the_United_States#Basketball
| Quote: |
| In 2001, more than 28 million Americans participated in basketball, which is more than any other team sport, according to the National Sporting Goods Association (NSGA). |
http://entertainment.howstuffworks.com/basketball.htm
Also-
| Quote: |
| During the year 2001 alone more than 28 million Americans participated in the game (which is more compared to any other team sport). |
http://72.14.235.104/search?q=cache:gprYR5wQK7IJ:www.clearleadinc.com/site/basketball.html+million+americans+play+basketball&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=22
To be fair, I have also seen quotes that up to 45 million people play basketball a year. Such as this-
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| Over the years, basketball enthusiasts have found ways to get enjoyment out of the sport that in 2002 attracted 40 million American participants, according to a 2003 SMGA International State of the Industry report. |
However, the same article mentions basketball as including "old-time favorites as "H-O-R-S-E" or "1-on-1," and hybrid games such as "21" that can be played with an odd number of players and blends 1-on-1 strategy with free-throw shooting."
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Few sports can match basketball's versatility. The game can be played solo or with up to 10 players. Games include old-time favorites as "H-O-R-S-E" or "1-on-1," and hybrid games such as "21" that can be played with an odd number of players and blends 1-on-1 strategy with free-throw shooting...
It's not uncommon for pickup players to spend hours sharpening their skills. Some prefer to practice alone, while others thirst for live competition....
If it's 4-on-4 or 3-on-3, you can work on your fundamentals � picks and rolls, dribbling, boxing out," said 'Aiea's Bobby Sing, 45, who works as a cook at the Hilton Hawaiian Village. "When you play 5-on-5 you can incorporate the fundamentals." |
http://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2004/Jan/23/sp/sp20a.html
I have already stated I don't consider games like "horse" or "21" as playing basketball. Its the equivalent of hitting golf balls on the range. I therefore consider references of 40-45 million basketball players in the U.S. to be overblown.
I have shown that golf is played by some 30 million Americans. Whether this is slightly more, slightly less, or equal to basketball players is really irrevelant. What is relevant is that golf is a major sport in the U.S, and is near the top, if not at the top, of total amount of active players. It also further supports my claim of Tiger's dominant icon status. |
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jinju
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| HapKi wrote: |
Jinju Wrote-
Over-all winner-
Tiger |
Golf is not a sport ergo, Tiger isnt an athelete. Sorry to break the news. |
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inspector gadget
Joined: 11 Apr 2003
Location: jeollanam-do in the boonies
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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Jinju,
What about Federer himself calling golf a sport????
No comment???
Did you see the interview??? |
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HapKi
Joined: 10 Dec 2004
Location: TALL BUILDING-SEOUL
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2006 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| I put Tiger and Federer head to head in 10 different categories. Tiger came out on top, and that's the best response you can come up with? You disappoint me, Jinju. |
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