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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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JZer
Joined: 13 Jan 2005
Location: South Korea
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 Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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| What male person working the exact same job as yourself gets a higher salary ? Lots. Do you need names? |
In Korea? I doubt that foreign male teachers working the same job get more in Korea. Pay is pretty standard for foreign English teachers. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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| therooster wrote: |
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| As for the guys saying they want proof this is a man's world just take a look at the numbers of violence and rape against women world wide and the amounts are staggering. The number of women living in poverty versus men, again worldwide, are heavily in favor of women being poor. The salary descrepencies world wide are staggering as well with men out earning women more often than not. The numbers of women forced into prostitution is huge. The sex trade is based on women, entirely with men often running the shows. So I guess if every once in a while a woman says "I didn't get the job because I am a women" well perhaps they should be allowed to vent every once in a while...... |
We're talking about the western world . When last did any of your friends get sold into the sex trade ? What male person working the exact same job as yourself gets a higher salary ? Which man you knows is apathetic about rape ? |
I think Peppermint pointed out the answers to your questions but here's a little googling to back it up.
None of my friends have been forced into the sex trade but plenty of Western women have. Or are Eastern European women not worthy of the Western woman designation?
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| Each year, some 1.2 million children are trafficked worldwide, according to the United Nations. The Organisation for Security and Co-operation in Europe estimates that 200,000 individuals are trafficked annually from eastern Europe, a significant proportion being children. Some become unpaid domestic servants, or work in sweatshops, but many more�boys, girls, teenagers�are forced into prostitution and crime. |
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/oct2003/traf-o25.shtml
And in any event, there are victims of human trafficing in the western hemisphere be it Canada, America or Chile. These are all Western women being taken advantaged of, brutalized, raped repeatedly. But since I don't know them personally, they don't exist...Right?
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TRAFFICKING BY REGION
Region of origin:
43 percent East Asia and the Pacific
29 percent Europe and Eurasia
17 percent Africa
5 percent Western Hemisphere
5 percent South Asia
less than 1 percent Near East
Region of Destination:
40 percent East Asia and the Pacific
36 percent Europe and Eurasia
8 percent Near East
6 percent Africa
6 percent Western Hemisphere
4 percent South Asia
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http://usinfo.state.gov/gi/Archive/2005/Jan/06-705748.html
And what makes one a woman? The onset of puberty? If so, there are quite a few women who are coerced into the sex trade before the age of 18.
According to the department�s National Human Trafficking Resource Center, �Sex trafficking is a modern-day form of slavery in which a commercial sex act is induced by force, fraud, or coercion, or in which the person induced to perform such an act is under the age of 18 years.�
The State Department has reported that 600,000 to 800,000 victims are trafficked across international borders each year and that more than half of the victims worldwide are children. And while most people are aware of the importation of young women into the United States from Africa, Latin America, Eastern Europe and rural parts of Asia to be sold into prostitution, fewer know that FBI statistics show that in the U.S., 55 percent of people under the age of 18 arrested on prostitution-related charges are black children.
Under the federal law Trafficking Victims Protection Act of 2000, any minor under the age 18 that is forced into prostitution is considered a victim of human trafficking, a modern day form of slavery.
http://news.newamericamedia.org/news/view_article.html?article_id=888f1c7177144ba52efe0aa4e8eb9a94
Do I know anyone who has been paid less than a man for the same job?
Yes. In fact, the woman had worked longer than the man and actually had continued her education to be certified in more areas in the geriatric field (they were both nurses) and yet the man (her long term boyfriend) was paid more. They both lived in the same house and shared the bills. I'm sure those extra bucks would have come in handy. 
Oh...and it has happened to me. I worked at a camp. FOR 4 YEARS and my fourth summer at the camp, I was asked how much I was paid by a 1st year male counselor. FIRST YEAR, mind you. Guess who got paid more? It wasn't me...That was my last year at the camp....
As far as anyone telling me that they were apathetic about rape. I can't say that I know anyone who is like that. But if I did, would I, as a woman, still want them as a friend? |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Alyallen wrote: |
| And in any event, there are victims of human trafficing in the western hemisphere be it Canada, America or Chile. These are all Western women being taken advantaged of, brutalized, raped repeatedly. But since I don't know them personally, they don't exist...Right? |
I salute you for trying to save this thread from stupidity. |
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Fri Jun 29, 2007 6:52 pm Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| Alyallen wrote: |
| And in any event, there are victims of human trafficing in the western hemisphere be it Canada, America or Chile. These are all Western women being taken advantaged of, brutalized, raped repeatedly. But since I don't know them personally, they don't exist...Right? |
I salute you for trying to save this thread from stupidity. |
Me too. Let's see if it lasts. |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 12:54 am Post subject: |
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Are you actually proposing that in the western world , women are actively being sold into the sex trade ? That despite all the mechanisms and hyper-sensitivity to the issue , that women earn less than men for exactly the same job ? That by any stretch of the sane mind there are men out there who represent the gross majority that are apathetic about rape ?
Total...entire....unbridled and extreme B#llshit .
Despite all the good will most of us men have invested in building a fair and balanced western society at out own expense , you would think there would be some form of aproval ...instead of the ridiculous and unwarranted complaining ..... |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| therooster wrote: |
Are you actually proposing that in the western world , women are actively being sold into the sex trade ? That despite all the mechanisms and hyper-sensitivity to the issue , that women earn less than men for exactly the same job ? That by any stretch of the sane mind there are men out there who represent the gross majority that are apathetic about rape ?
Total...entire....unbridled and extreme B#*beep* .
Despite all the good will most of us men have invested in building a fair and balanced western society at out own expense , you would think there would be some form of aproval ...instead of the ridiculous and unwarranted complaining ..... |
Man...you are a terrible terrible troll.
You don't know how to address actual factual evidence without going into boring, droll, corny and predictable hyperbole.
You bore me and I'm done. Next time, try to do a little better, ok? I'd only give you a C- AT BEST for that reponse.
Better luck, next time! |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:39 am Post subject: |
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Man...you are a terrible terrible troll.
You don't know how to address actual factual evidence without going into boring, droll, corny and predictable hyperbole.
You bore me and I'm done. Next time, try to do a little better, ok? I'd only give you a C- AT BEST for that reponse.
Better luck, next time!
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Thanks for telling me how you feel about me . I was losing sleep worrying if I did or did not conform to your standards as a human being . Well that's one way of looking at it . Here's another : I couldn't give a flying *beep* .
Now what factual evidence is this you are talking about ? You're nothing short of insane if you propose any of these statements are true :
1) The problem of being sold into the sex trade is something sane western women should be worried about .
2) With all the laws and infrastructure in place to protect people of all descriptions in the west of recieving equal treatment in the workplace , somehow women still get paid less for the same job . CR@P.
3) Somehow secretly western men really don't care about the rights of female to chose who they sleep with and wish they could force themselves sexually on women (ie : rape) .
It's exactly hyperbole I'm being critical of . The hyperbole often used in the victim culture of feminism . Frankly you're boring by defending any of these statements . I suggest you're doing so is part of trying to perpetuate a little feminst agenda that just is'nt selling . Get the F#ck over it .
Oh you get an F : for fail ...and a nice condescending pat on the back to boot . |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 2:50 am Post subject: |
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I think there is a common understand of "western world" . Common to most people but obviously not to you . To compare the situation and rights of third world women in bulgaria to those of american women is idiotic and entirely irrelevant to this topic . By your standard we may as well discuss the trobriand islanders social fabric as being relevant to ours .
Here's an idea : western men have done more for womens rights than women have ever done .You really think some bra burning freed you ? Instead of using the way men treat women badly in other societies as evidence for so called "sexism" , instead take a look around you and say "thank god for how great ,kind , generous and thoughtful western men are in comparison . "
thank god ...and fetch your man a beer in gratitude .
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Bramble
Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Location: National treasures need homes
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 4:17 am Post subject: |
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| I have to agree that we need some better quality trolls around here. |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 5:58 am Post subject: |
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| I have to agree that we need some better quality trolls around here. |
A sure sign you lack anything akin to a life is when you start talking about "trolls" on the internet .[/quote] |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:00 am Post subject: |
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| therooster wrote: |
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| I have to agree that we need some better quality trolls around here. |
A sure sign you lack anything akin to a life is when you start talking about "trolls" on the internet . |
[/quote]
A sure sign you lack anything akin to a life is when you are a "troll" on the internet. |
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The Bobster
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| therooster wrote: |
| To compare the situation and rights of third world women in bulgaria to those of american women is idiotic and entirely irrelevant to this topic . |
He actually has a good point here, worth discussing.
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| Here's an idea : western men have done more for womens rights than women have ever done . |
This one's completely wrong, though. Every advance in women's rights in the west has taken place because women decided to stand up and be strong. And they did so with great opposition at every step from the majority of men in power. |
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Alyallen
Joined: 29 Mar 2004
Location: The 4th Greatest Place on Earth = Jeonju!!!
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| The Bobster wrote: |
| therooster wrote: |
| To compare the situation and rights of third world women in bulgaria to those of american women is idiotic and entirely irrelevant to this topic . |
He actually has a good point here, worth discussing.
| Quote: |
| Here's an idea : western men have done more for womens rights than women have ever done . |
This one's completely wrong, though. Every advance in women's rights in the west has taken place because women decided to stand up and be strong. And they did so with great opposition at every step from the majority of men in power. |
Well....I pointed them out to see how far this label of "Western" women goes. They aren't Eastern women. SO what are they? They are too poor to be considered Western? I will still point out that the the links I provided still show that women from the western hemisphere are being taken advantaged of. But I suppose that if most of these women were Mexican, it wouldn't count either?
Please someone tell me what a Western woman is. I'm dying to hear the answer to this one. |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:29 am Post subject: |
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This one's completely wrong, though. Every advance in women's rights in the west has taken place because women decided to stand up and be strong. And they did so with great opposition at every step from the majority of men in power.
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Lets be honest . Any second men wanted to we could have put a stop to the process of giving women equal rights . Don't be mistaken , equality is something we allowed because we believed in it ourselves ...so where's the thanks ?
"Western society" . Hard to explain and I don't expect my definition speaks for everyone .But what I mean by "western society" is it's a value system shared by most middle classed americans , british , australian , new zealanders , west europeans and "modern" tuned in people of various other societies . To not be "west" does not make you "east". Nor do you have to be wealthy to be "west" . It's a value system that promotes equality across the board . If your country is oppressing you as a women , then you very likely don't live in a western country . |
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therooster
Joined: 11 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2007 7:38 am Post subject: |
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I think it's not too unfair to say that those arguing that men enjoy more rights and privelege in "the west" have failed miserably to come anything close to validating that statement .
Not a surprising result given that it's fairly obvious that women have long since enjoyed equal rights in western countries .
So if it's a given that men and women share equal rights in the west . what then is feminism ? A club of people who share an agenda to pursue more rights for themselves , polarizing themselves against the other gender ? Often associated with bad-mouthing and seeking to reign in the rights of the other gender .
How then , is it any different or morally superior to misogyny ? |
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