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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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 Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:17 am Post subject: |
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| ernie wrote: |
| how would the servers know the total sales of the restaurant that night? |
In many states, a "service charge" is not subject to sales tax, but only if it goes to the employees. If they think they're getting screwed, they could always call the tax man.
FYI, in Texas:
http://www.window.state.tx.us/taxinfo/taxpnw/tpn9812/tpn81201.html
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�151.007(c)(7) and Rule 3.337.
Tax Code �151.007(c) states:
(c) "Sales price" or "receipts" does not include any of the following if separately identified to the customer by such means as an invoice, billing, sales slip or ticket, or contract:
(7) a voluntary gratuity or a reasonable mandatory charge for the service of a meal or food products, including soft drinks and candy, for immediate human consumption when the service charge is separated from the sales price of the meal or food product and identified as a gratuity or tip and when the total amount of the service charge is disbursed by the employer to employees who customarily and regularly provide the service.
Rule 3.337 on tips and gratuities provides:
(c) Mandatory gratuity charges.
(1) Reasonable mandatory gratuity charges are specifically excluded from the sales price of taxable items.
(2) The mandatory gratuity charge must be:
(A) separated from the sales price of the meal or food product served for immediate consumption;
(B) identified as a tip or gratuity; and
(C) the full amount of the mandatory gratuity charge must be disbursed to employees who customarily and regularly provide the service upon which the charge is based. If any portion is retained by the employer, the entire gratuity will be subject to sales tax.
(d) Records. The retailer must maintain records which demonstrate that the full amount collected as mandatory gratuity charges has been disbursed to qualified employees. In order to comply with this requirement, the records must show:
(1) all mandatory gratuity charges collected from customers and the corresponding disbursements to each qualified employee; or
(2) that the total direct compensation due all qualified employees during each sales and use tax reporting period equals or exceeds the total amount collected as mandatory gratuity charges during the same period. |
In NY:
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The service charge billed to customers is
taxable, as a receipt from the sale of food or drink, unless: �(1) the charge is separately stated on
the bill or invoice given to the customer; (2) the charge is specifically designated as a gratuity;
and (3) all such monies received are paid over in total to employees.� (20 NYCRR 527.8[l].) |
In Washington though, mandatory service charges are taxable. So that wouldn't necessarily work everywhere.
http://dor.wa.gov/content/doingbusiness/businesstypes/industry/tavern/tavern_specific.aspx
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Gratuities
Tips or gratuities received under circumstances that are clearly voluntary are not part of the selling price and, therefore, are not subject to sales tax. However, if the tip or gratuity is added to the bill and is a mandatory charge for services, the charge becomes part of the selling price subject to tax.
A gratuity is not voluntary when the amount is agreed upon and the contract document states that a gratuity "will be added." For example, a tavern may have a policy of charging groups of five or more a mandatory 15 percent gratuity. When a gratuity is applied in this manner, the entire charge is subject to retail sales tax and the Retailing classification of the B&O tax. |
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endofthewor1d
Joined: 01 Apr 2003
Location: the end of the wor1d.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:18 am Post subject: |
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| jessie-b wrote: |
| If you don't tip at a restaurant, be sure your face will be remembered and you will not be welcome again. |
hmmm... now you've made me think, because that point hasn't already been brought up and addressed about fifteen bazillion times on this thread already. oh, but wait... yes it has.
when i'm in the states, i do tip at restaurants. because i believe it's my responsibility to pay the waiter rather than his boss? no. it's exactly like you said. it's for fear of looking like a cheapskate in front of the people i'm with and for what my service might be like the next time i go there. that's called extortion. it's a dumb system.
the system i prefer, which is practiced here in korea, is that people agree to make a certain rate of pay for adequately doing the job that they've been hired to do, rather than expecting the customer to pay them extra money for doing an adequate job because they've agreed to work for a rate of pay that is unacceptable to them.
if you have a different opinion, i'll discuss it with you. but this 'if you don't like it, stay home' stuff is getting old. |
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htrain
Joined: 24 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:38 am Post subject: |
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I was a waiter, I found it to be an awful job. You constantly feel like you're asking for a handout and your earings are based on people's generosity. Not only that, you're like a runaround b1tchboy satisfying someone's wants and bellowing requests.
I hate tipping too. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 12:43 am Post subject: |
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| htrain wrote: |
I was a waiter, I found it to be an awful job. You constantly feel like you're asking for a handout and your earings are based on people's generosity. Not only that, you're like a runaround b1tchboy satisfying someone's wants and bellowing requests.
I hate tipping too. |
Like htrain said, inefficient and chaotic. For the other person who said people who don't tip are cheap, they could be right. I always tip well because that is the current system that is place. What I (and many others here) are saying is that the system sucks and should be changed. It's not about being cheap in any way. I tip all the time in SouthEast Asia too when I get excellent service (not just normal service), even though most of the time it's not expected.
Tipping again is a bad system. It's what we have in place, but not one person has shown why it is actually beneficial to keep it going and not try to replace it with something better. |
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htrain
Joined: 24 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 1:58 am Post subject: |
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| Tipping can also allow a person with no education to make $400 in a night without selling crack rock. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:08 am Post subject: ... |
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| They're not a new thing either. If you don't know how to factor them in to your dining costs then you're a bleeping idiot. |
I don't think I suggested either of the above, did I?
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| I'm all for ending customs that the majority of people find archaic. But tipping isn't one of them. |
Are you sure?
And, to be clear, are you saying that tipping is a good system, or that it's inevitable/just comes with the territory?
If you think it's good, do you think we should expand on the concept to have it in more service industries?
Barbers
Mechanics
Librarians
Those are just a few that come to mind.
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| This thread is about discussion the custom of tipping in the United States with Korean visitors. Or, have you forgotten? |
That's not what was being discussed when I came on this thread. Threads on this forum have a tendency to go off-topic. Unless someone is purposefully trying to hijack the thread/move it off-topic, there's nothing wrong with that. That's the accepted custom. Maybe you haven't noticed that before. At any rate, if you don't like it, park your waaambulance in some other thread. |
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htrain
Joined: 24 May 2007
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:27 am Post subject: |
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| In America we tip barbers. |
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jessie-b
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 2:30 am Post subject: |
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| endofthewor1d wrote: |
| jessie-b wrote: |
| If you don't tip at a restaurant, be sure your face will be remembered and you will not be welcome again. |
hmmm... now you've made me think, because that point hasn't already been brought up and addressed about fifteen bazillion times on this thread already. oh, but wait... yes it has.
when i'm in the states, i do tip at restaurants. because i believe it's my responsibility to pay the waiter rather than his boss? no. it's exactly like you said. it's for fear of looking like a cheapskate in front of the people i'm with and for what my service might be like the next time i go there. that's called extortion. it's a dumb system.
the system i prefer, which is practiced here in korea, is that people agree to make a certain rate of pay for adequately doing the job that they've been hired to do, rather than expecting the customer to pay them extra money for doing an adequate job because they've agreed to work for a rate of pay that is unacceptable to them.
if you have a different opinion, i'll discuss it with you. but this 'if you don't like it, stay home' stuff is getting old. |
OK. Thanks for pointing out my fault and then AGAIN repeating the same old schlock. blah blah blah. tipping is stupid...blah blah blah... |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:05 am Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| pastis wrote: |
| Regardless, both options are still damn lousy and it's not like you can justify them as being 'good', or fair, even if they are enforced by law. |
Yes, maybe one day in the future, everybody will work for free, and we won't have to worry about this trifling thing they call money. |
Aw, look at you trying to be cute... 
Here's an idea: start up a restaurant chain in the States that has no tipping, being sure to advertise the fact. Pay the servers slightly above the min. wage (~$9-11) with the kind of sales commission system I described earlier. If all other factors were equal (food was up to par etc.) I bet it would fly really well with customers, simply because everyone knows tipping is bullsh1t.
If I ever found a decent restaurant back in the States with a no tipping policy, I'd probably become a regular. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 3:53 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
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| They're not a new thing either. If you don't know how to factor them in to your dining costs then you're a bleeping idiot. |
I don't think I suggested either of the above, did I? |
You implied tipping was a "hidden charge." How is it hidden if you know about it?
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| Quote: |
| I'm all for ending customs that the majority of people find archaic. But tipping isn't one of them. |
Are you sure? |
Pretty sure.
http://www.newyorker.com/archive/2005/09/05/050905ta_talk_surowiecki
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| This is, on both sides, a more uncertain process than a simple service charge would be. But that uncertainty�that freedom to exercise discretion, to leave as little or as much as you wish�is why tipping has flourished as a social institution. (In the same spirit, Americans prefer giving charity privately rather than through their government.) Diners�eighty per cent of whom say that they prefer tipping to a set service charge�like the power that the ability to tip gives them. Waiters like tipping because it gives them the chance to distinguish themselves from the crowd and to score an occasional windfall. |
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| And, to be clear, are you saying that tipping is a good system, or that it's inevitable/just comes with the territory? |
Both. With or without tipping, the price of the meal is going to stay virtually the same. I prefer the choice that tipping provides. I also enjoy the added level of service that I receive for being a good tipper.
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| If you think it's good, do you think we should expand on the concept to have it in more service industries? |
I said before that I wish more industries relied on tipping. If my mechanic leaves grease and dirt on my car, he gets a bad tip. If my real estate broker takes 6 months to sell my house, she gets a bad tip. Wouldn't it be nice to have that choice more often? |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:10 am Post subject: |
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| pastis wrote: |
Here's an idea: start up a restaurant chain in the States that has no tipping, being sure to advertise the fact. Pay the servers slightly above the min. wage (~$9-11) with the kind of sales commission system I described earlier. If all other factors were equal (food was up to par etc.) I bet it would fly really well with customers, simply because everyone knows tipping is bullsh1t.
If I ever found a decent restaurant back in the States with a no tipping policy, I'd probably become a regular. |
Hey! I found a place for you.
(cached link)
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| I�m happy to announce that, starting Thursday, 16 November 2006, The Linkery will be a �no tipping� restaurant. Undoubtedly this will generate a lot of questions. So, without further ado, our �TIP-FREE RESTAURANT Q&A�. |
Oh, but wait. There's more.
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How will this work?
We�ve decided to join the rest of American retail business and charge a set amount for our products and services. We now include the cost of table service for dining-in guests on each check at 18%. And we do not accept tips. If you leave any extra, we�ll donate it to charity. |
And here's some more places to choose from:
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Does any other sit-down restaurant do this?
After a fair amount of Googling, I could find only two other restaurants in the U.S. that have replaced tipping with a service line item. One is The French Laundry and the other is Chez Panisse. Admittedly, we don�t want to limit ourselves by aspiring to be only as good as those two places, but it�s respectable company.
Seriously, seeing that Thomas Keller and Alice Waters have taken this course suggests to us that perhaps it helps a restaurant be excellent. Given our goal of developing a world-class neighborhood restaurant, we�ll follow.
UPDATE (15 Nov): add to the list Charlie Trotter�s in Chicago, Per Se in New York, and Moosewood in Ithica, New York. |
So there you go. six restaurants in America have done away with tipping. And all of them have instituted a "service charge" instead. Bon appetit!
FYI, Charlie Trotter's is highly recommended. |
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jessie-b
Joined: 17 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| I'm impressed with the "donating to charity" restaurant. awesome. |
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pastis
Joined: 20 Jun 2006
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| Posted: Sun Oct 07, 2007 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| huffdaddy wrote: |
| So there you go. six restaurants in America have done away with tipping. And all of them have instituted a "service charge" instead. Bon appetit! |
Just keep your pseudo-irony to yourself, I can do without. |
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Alinca
Joined: 05 Oct 2007
Location: Left Coast Center
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 12:06 pm Post subject: Re: Polite way to remind dinner companions about tipping |
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| jg wrote: |
Let me preempt those who don't believe in tipping by saying I am not interested in hearing it, plz don't hijack my thread, save that for another discussion.
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Looks like I am too late.
To answer the OP� although they may not be listing anymore. I have this come up all the time and I think I have figured the problem. TAX. I have found that group members� will buy a 10-dollar lunch and proudly chip in 12 when the bill comes thinking they are giving the customary 15-20 percent. Well in California there is tax and it happens to be 8.5 percent in my town so that 2-dollar tip actually is an insulting 11.5 percent. So when the bill comes I address the group with a good natured smile in my voice for �Everyone to chip in and don�t forget to add 25 percent to your menu items because we have tax and tip here in California and we want to show our appreciation to the fine wait staff and the excellent service they provided� Or something near to that affect. (assuming that is the case). Seems to cut down on the amount of shortage.
Hope this helps. |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
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| Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2007 3:05 pm Post subject: |
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| in ontario tipping is easy because we have an 8% provincial sales tax and 7% federal sales tax, bringing the total to a nice round 15%... all you do to tip properly is double the tax... yikes! |
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