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the eye
Joined: 29 Jan 2004
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 Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
The problem here is it rather flies in the face of your bible. Let's take Exodus. We can maybe excuse Pharoh's disbelief, but the Jews? C'mon. God saves their first born sons. God dumps manna on them. God parts the Red Sea. It's a god damn Cirque Du Soleil of miracles. It's non stop. God just opens the freakin' miracle firehose. Given all this 100% solid proof of god right before their eyes, you'd think they'd be YHWH cheerleaders to the last. But no. The first chance they get, they melt down some gold and worship a calf?
Ummmm.
So it would appear god can take a miracle crap right down your throat and people STILL will exercise free will.
Of course, you might want to say Exodus isn't to be taken literally (*snicker*). But then let's look at the New Testament. Here the apostles see all these Jesus miracles and yet they still had their doubts? Peter denied knowing Jesus. Didn't he see him exorcise demons, heal people, multiply lunch boxes, etc. Wouldn't Miracle Jesus spring Peter from the clink? If Thomas saw all these miracles too, including bringing a dude back from the dead, why was he so doubting the guy who can bring another guy back from the dead can't bring himself back? If my doctor heals my foot fungus, I would take the word of another that he healed his own foot fungus. I don't got to poke around his toes. And worse of all, why would Judas turn in Jesus, despite seeing a crap load of crystal clear proof Jesus was god incarnate? For pocket change, no less. And then he kills himself, knowing he's delivering himself to god's wrath PDQ?
I dunno, man. I submit your god can be working miracles testable by science, making his hand known in the world, and people are still going to exercise free will and refuse to genuflect. Your claim that your crypto god of faith and free will can't solidly reveal himself simply doesn't hold up based on the human behavior contained within your own scripture. |
Well put.
It's not so much the individuals close to jesus, who maintained their doubts despite his miracles. Christians will tell you they were tempted by the devil.
But the BIGGIES? The miracles that affected thousands of people? Exodus is one of the most pumped examples of god's existence.
Think about that. Think about what a crisis it would have been for Egypt to have lost 20,000 chariots and even more soldiers in the Red Sea.
And they didn't record any of it? No memorials, no dedications? Nothing?
There are records of floods, famines, disease, but not this??
The period of 2000-1300B.C. was a time of great documentation in Egypt. Yet not the disaster that occured in 1400B.C. ?
Also, if thousands of the pharaoh's finest were drowned with their chariots in the red sea, why has nothing ever been found and authenticated?
Lots of people have been looking, and finding relics of the period. But, nothing as described in the bible.
Oh yeah, the translation problem again.
How many ways can you describe a wheel? |
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Hollywoodaction
Joined: 02 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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To answer the original question:
If he does, give me concrete proof of his/her existence (and please, don't insult my intelligence by saying that "proof is in the bible"). |
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luvnpeas
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 2:55 pm Post subject: |
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| blynch wrote: |
We can�t really prove God exists in a scientific sense. However, many things can�t be proved scientifically and they are still true. There�s a sense in which humanity has simply accepted that there is a God, or gods. Historically humans have always had a belief in a greater Being as part of their culture. The Bible doesn�t try to prove God�s existence. It takes that as a �given�. What the Bible is concerned to do is to reveal what God is like � how he acts towards the world and people, what sort of character he has, what sort of plans he is committed to.
Pointers to God
There are factors that point to the existence of God. Different people put more importance on some of these factors than on others. Some of the arguments used to show God�s existence are: [etc.] |
Plagiarized.
http://www.christianity.net.au/you/how_do_we_know_god_exists
(Also noted by tomato)
| blynch wrote: |
| I know intuitively than I can not expect to enjoy a more intimate relationship with another person which goes deeper than the degree of intimacy I have attained in my personal relationship with Jesus. But my time alone with God is easily set aside, compromised, crowded out by a thousand mundane matters, on a daily basis. |
Plagiarized
http://www.ldolphin.org/personalgod.html
(Blynch mentions some pages at ldolphin.org, but not the ones where he got "his" post, and he never mentions that the words aren't his.)
| blynch wrote: |
| God could not (and would not) reveal himself to us in such an obvious way because Faith is a very personal thing. what goes on between you and your faith is between you and God. Having said that, if you have a genuine desire to stay true to your faith then you'd have the genuine desire to study and meditate on the teachings the Bible gives you. [etcetera] |
Probably plagiarized (copied from a discussion on another board, 3 years ago; poster's name was "flirt(m)"...is a blynch a flirt???)
http://www.saramnet.com/viewtopic.php?p=4226&highlight=&sid=8c5b7704b1ca81fa8454afd342dcb6c0#4226
| blynch wrote: |
| Look into the sky at night... there is something pulling us away... and hinting that we are walking wonderlands full of space, time, mind, soul, love, and God that created all these. |
Plagiarized (unless he is "ashley kim" telling the guys to give all the physics a rest...lol)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=%22we+are+walking+wonderlands%22&btnG=Search
| blynch wrote: |
| 1. Wow... you know something about 'biophysics' or 'neurobiology'. Hey 78, Acetylcholine stimulates skeletal muscle contraction but inhibits or slows cardiacmuscle contraction. How can this neurotransmitter have such opposite effects? |
Plagiarized
http://www.bio.utexas.edu/faculty/buskirk/bio214/Beckie'sQ2sAnswers.html |
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seoulunitarian
Joined: 06 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:04 pm Post subject: Re: re: |
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| blynch wrote: |
| seoulunitarian wrote: |
| blynch wrote: |
| Leopard-Skin Pill-Box Hat wrote: |
| blynch wrote: |
| Hey 78... you got that right. God's presence cannot be measured in any form of physical evidences, but can be measured only in your brain. |
Hey room temperature... the brain is material (unlike god). 1. Made of electrically active neurons and neurotransmitters forming complex networks, and in your case characterized by degeneration. It's interesting.
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I guess Fluid Dynamics and the Stokes' theorem made you smarter. 
(F = Mi + Nj + Pk) |
Nice try Einstein. 2. You failed. That problem I gave you was unprovable. There's a million dollar prize offered by the Clay Mathematics Institute for anyone who can prove it, but you're hardly the boy for the job.
What a jackass you are!  |
1. Wow... you know something about 'biophysics' or 'neurobiology'. Hey 78, Acetylcholine stimulates skeletal muscle contraction but inhibits or slows cardiacmuscle contraction. How can this neurotransmitter have such opposite effects?
2. I'm glad that you did the research. I didn't try to prove anything on this forum... and you know why. There is a web site called "Art of problem solving" and you can use all the math symbols. I am a regular so you can try to fail me there. Btw (F = Mi + Nj + Pk) is what you need... 78. You can't even solve 7th grade math/science questions. Work harder if you want to catch me.  |
Good God! (not really) This has become such a duo of the egos. Didn't your Christ say something about dying to self?
Peace |
I feel no sympathy towards any of the characters ignorantly bashing Christians. |
Well, my post really had nothing to do with sympathy; however, glad to see you've done a 180 from "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do."
Peace |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| On page 9, I wrote: |
| Have you noticed that Creationists and theists do more cutting and pasting than Evolutionists and unbelievers? |
| Then on this page, luvnpeas sampled blynch's posts and wrote: |
| Plagiarized |
See what I mean?
This reminds me of a fellow teacher in Kumi who had swallowed the Amway spiel hook, line, and sinker. He did his dangdest to make a profit in his Amway distributorship, but he only blamed himself for his lack of success.
During that time, a more successful Korean Amway distributor received mention in the Korea Herald. The article contained several quotes. We noticed that he used the same buzzwords and slogans as our fellow teacher.
Do you suppose that Amway distributors and Creationists have to make verbatim quotes for the same reason?
What could that reason be? |
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flakfizer
Joined: 12 Nov 2004
Location: scaling the Cliffs of Insanity with a frayed rope.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 27, 2007 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Would it matter if He did? |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 5:48 am Post subject: |
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A person in purified consciousness can realize God's existence. A person in materially contaminated consciousness can not perceive God.
The process prescribed for purifiying our consciousness in this age is simply to chant transcendental names of God.
There are many such names of God in Sanskrit, and holy names for the supreme person are found in every civilized human culture and language.
Complete absorption in material consciousness is likened to a glass filled with ink - there is just no room for any milk to be added.
Similarly, complete absorption in spiritual consciousness (very rare in the material world...) is charactarized by having no material desires or aspirations...
Every religious tradition has examples of spiritually perfected souls and saintly persons. Consequently, many people have at least a little faith in God - based on what they've heard from spiritual authorities (at various stages of realization...)
I was greatly fortunate to have somehow gotten association with a genuine pure devotee (in disciplic succession) empowered to spread God consciousness among the most fallen souls (including frustrated hippies, "freaks", acid-heads, and "meth monsters" ...)
http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Prabhupada_Videos.html
While I'm too worldly minded and whimsical to be considered at a high level of consciousness, I at least have firm faith that God exists - mainly because of my brief contact with one of his pure representatives... |
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luvnpeas
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 2:21 pm Post subject: |
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Why do smart people go on shows whose target audience is morons? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sat Apr 28, 2007 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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| luvnpeas wrote: |
Why do smart people go on shows whose target audience is morons? |
There is no bad publicity. He's selling a book.
(Although Penn Jillette likes comment "Oh, there is no bad publicity? I think that phrase was first coined by Lee Harvey Oswald.") |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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luvnpeas
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| There is no bad publicity. He's selling a book. |
I feel silly and naive. I assumed the objective was intellectual exchange.
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:19 pm Post subject: |
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| luvnpeas wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| There is no bad publicity. He's selling a book. |
I feel silly and naive. I assumed the objective was intellectual exchange.
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And the objective of an escort service is to provide charming companions and conversation partners for business men... |
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luvnpeas
Joined: 03 Aug 2006
Location: somewhere i have never travelled
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Are you calling Bill O'Reilly a *beep*? |
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contrarian
Joined: 20 Jan 2007
Location: Nearly in NK
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| Posted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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There is a God. He is not some amorphous power he wound up the world and now stands back to watch and see what people will do. He is Our Father in Heaven. I believe. Can I prove it by objective means? Likely not, although a universe as beautiful and diverse as the one we have speaks loudly of someone who cares.
Can I prove it subectively, easier but likely not. I can tell of feelings and the ideal of faith, but you have to want to believe and then work on it.
What I find most ironic about this subject, is how miltant the non beleivers are. They all seem to have lost an earlier simpler faith and revel in trying to destroy it in others. The world is full of you kind of losers. |
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