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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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 Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus, is your position that Putin, those around him, and the state apparatus he built isn't corrupt, or just that they aren't as bad as the oligarchs he went after? |
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Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Leon wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| You are of course right to an extent about why people ignore some of the problems in places like Africa, but I dislike when people marginalize legitimate concerns because there is something worse out there, as if it is not possible to think more than one thing is a problem. |
A question for you: what distinguishes a legitimate concern from an illegitimate concern? A legitimate conversation from an illegitimate one? |
A legitimate concern is something that is real, i.e. Obama is a muslim is not a legitimate concern, but Obama has expanded the surveillance state is. |
So "Fox hates buying new clothes," would be a legitimate concern for you to hypothetically hold, despite not impacting your life at all, since it happens to be true? Surely there must be more than simple truth value to it, especially given we cannot always be certain of the truth when formulating our concerns? What about a more ambiguous case, of the form, "I'm concerned X might be the case."? |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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He is much better than those who came before and getting better over time. I do not know how corrupt he is. If my visa ever arrives I'll be in Saint Petersburg for the next 3 years. I expect I'll know more over time.
The Russian system has checkpoints of rent-seeking politicians and oligarchs. Plus a massive problem of organized crime. Russian society was shattered in 1917 and then rebuilt and then shattered again in the 90's. Abortion, alcoholism, heroin and generally degenerate behavior are disgustingly common. Putin has a very big job. Unfortunately he's got it in his head that a Eurasian Union (reconstituted Soviet empire) is just what the country needs.
I'm pretty confident Russia is better off not being under Soros, Rothschild, Kissinger and the State Department. Wages are rising far ahead of inflation/cost of living. The white birthrate is rising quite quickly. The Orthodox Church is being reinserted back into the society. The temptation of empire could derail the whole thing. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Fox wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| Fox wrote: |
| Leon wrote: |
| You are of course right to an extent about why people ignore some of the problems in places like Africa, but I dislike when people marginalize legitimate concerns because there is something worse out there, as if it is not possible to think more than one thing is a problem. |
A question for you: what distinguishes a legitimate concern from an illegitimate concern? A legitimate conversation from an illegitimate one? |
A legitimate concern is something that is real, i.e. Obama is a muslim is not a legitimate concern, but Obama has expanded the surveillance state is. |
So "Fox hates buying new clothes," would be a legitimate concern for you to hypothetically hold, despite not impacting your life at all, since it happens to be true? Surely there must be more than simple truth value to it, especially given we cannot always be certain of the truth when formulating our concerns? What about a more ambiguous case, of the form, "I'm concerned X might be the case."? |
I suppose you could add non-trivial as a qualifier as well, but then you would get into a discussion of is legitimate the same thing as worthwhile.
An ambiguous case could involve reasonable suspicion as opposed to our conjecture, but what qualifies as reasonable suspicion is probably situational. |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
He is much better than those who came before and getting better over time. I do not know how corrupt he is. If my visa ever arrives I'll be in Saint Petersburg for the next 3 years. I expect I'll know more over time.
The Russian system has checkpoints of rent-seeking politicians and oligarchs. Plus a massive problem of organized crime. Russian society was shattered in 1917 and then rebuilt and then shattered again in the 90's. Abortion, alcoholism, heroin and generally degenerate behavior are disgustingly common. Putin has a very big job. Unfortunately he's got it in his head that a Eurasian Union (reconstituted Soviet empire) is just what the country needs.
I'm pretty confident Russia is better off not being under Soros, Rothschild, Kissinger and the State Department. Wages are rising far ahead of inflation/cost of living. The white birthrate is rising quite quickly. The Orthodox Church is being reinserted back into the society. The temptation of empire could derail the whole thing. |
Well, I agree on the last part at least. It does seem to be heading in that direction. I don't find it surprising Russia had/has these problems after communism, and it could have easily been someone far worse than Putin, although at the same time it could have been a Lee Kuan Yew and the situation would have improved even more. I think Russia would be best off under the rule of law to deal with Oligarchs rather than there current system, although I could say the same about the US after the financial crisis. |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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LKY was more aggressive than Putin. The PAP began as a European style fascist party (see the logo for the PAP and compare to the British Union of Fascists). I'd be quite happy if Putin instituted Singaporean style reforms related to free speech, association, alcohol consumption, etc while things are sorted out. LKY was very harsh towards homosexuals and other minorities. He has used Chinese immigration to offset the Malay birthrates.
For once, Leon, I agree with you! |
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Leon
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2014 9:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Titus wrote: |
LKY was more aggressive than Putin. The PAP began as a European style fascist party (see the logo for the PAP and compare to the British Union of Fascists). I'd be quite happy if Putin instituted Singaporean style reforms related to free speech, association, alcohol consumption, etc while things are sorted out. LKY was very harsh towards homosexuals and other minorities. He has used Chinese immigration to offset the Malay birthrates.
For once, Leon, I agree with you! |
Well I was mostly referring to LKY not being corrupt rather than actual policies, and Singapore started in, at least per my understanding, a much worse position than Russia. We probably differ in the reasons why we appreciate him, and Singapore is at a place where the things you mention are more harmful than helpful for the most part. Singapore developed strong institutions and rule of law in a way that Putin hasn't, which is more important than the other social policies you mentioned. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Putin is the most powerful head of state who is also least beholden to the international/American bank cartel.
The last time we had a global depression, both Hitler and Stalin also resisted the bank cartel. I suppose Titus would say these two men succumbed to the temptation of Empire, which is a mild way to put it! |
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Titus
Joined: 19 May 2012
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| Posted: Fri Jan 17, 2014 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| I think Russia would be best off under the rule of law to deal with Oligarchs rather than there current system |
Putin enforced laws w/r/t the oligarchs. That's what the American/international banking cartel is pissed off about. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sat Jan 18, 2014 3:46 am Post subject: |
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MOSCOW — President Vladimir Putin said Friday that gay people have nothing to fear in Russia as long as they leave children alone.
Putin met with a group of volunteers in the Olympic mountain venue at Krasnaya Polyana on Friday to wish them success at the Games. During a question-and-answer session, one volunteer asked him about Russia’s attitudes toward gays, a subject that has provoked worldwide controversy, and Putin offered what was apparently meant to be a reassuring answer for visitors to the Olympics.
“One can feel calm and at ease,” he said. “Just leave kids alone, please.” |
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Putin asserted that the idea of legalizing pedophilia has been discussed in some countries.
“There is nothing secret about it, look it up on the Internet and you’ll find it straightaway,”
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Oh Vladimir! |
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