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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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 Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:34 pm Post subject: |
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| I know the internet is a rough place...and so is Detroit |
No the internet is not a rough place. The D is. You go to the D and you tell someone to 'go slap yourself' you ain't leaving the D without some bruises at the least.
Still waiting for the poll...
Informal one here- "Is telling someone to go slap themselves" liable to precipitate a fight? How would you react if a stranger you were getting into an argument said that to you? Is it appropriate to say to someone if you aren't trying to provoke a fist fight?
Let the voices of Dave's speak.
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| Rude comments (despite the fact that they are extremely rarely heard by the subject) are not the same as shouting obscenities, are they? |
Well you were the one who put rude comments like in the same category as obscenities.
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Great advice! Yes, i did just that yesterday. I was caught in the rain, walking home with 2 bags of groceries. As I rushed by a food cart, two high school girls huddled under the awning yelled out a nice long sour 'hiiiiii' followed by a laugh.
Ignoring them, I was subsequently called shipsecki. The man who owned the food cart, the other adults under it, and those walking by, said absolutely nothing. So, I stopped dead in my tracks and gave them a quick little speech in Korean on their ignorance, as they smirked the whole time. The others stood there and gawked.
A few months ago, as I waited for the subway to slow down at my stop, two middle school girls kept repeating 'yo man, wazzup, yo man, yo dude'. I wasn't sure if it was directed at me because I was dressed in a suit for an interview. In fact I'm always dressed more on the formal side.
So, to see if they were directing this crap at me, I glanced at them in the window of the subway car door. They noticed and stopped. When I looked away, they started again, and laughed. Again, all the older folk around them said absolutely nothing. So, in Korean i asked them if they had a mental problem. They answered in a very rude tone "Why?" As I left the train, I answered "You're acting insane".
As the doors closed, I could hear them roar with laughter.
Ah, here's another one. I was on a packed bus, heading to work a few days ago. It was literally like a sauna in there. No exaggeration. All the windows were closed, and the sun was shining through... and as I said it was packed, with no room to spare.
Fortunately, the roof vent was right above me so I pushed it open, not knowing it would make a loud bang as it sprang up. At 8am, it jolted some people awake. What comments do I hear?
"What was that?"
"The foreigner did it"
"Foreigners have no respect for others.' |
You yourself lumped rude comments in with obscenities. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:04 pm Post subject: |
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LOL! Wow, yeah i feared for my life, even when buying E and pot on a saturday night. This is a great diversion Steel. Keep on the badass detroit thing. The question is, does Detroit in all it's badassness equal all men? Tell us again how bad detroit is. Go on for as long as you like, because it takes focus away from the whole 'all men' thing.
If you really want to know how I would react, I would first question why it was said. I wouldn't have said it if i thought you'd be so excruciated by it. I hope you don't need to see a psychologist now.
The poll was made. Fortunately for you a mod locked it...but not before one guy from Detroit answered.
http://forums.eslcafe.com/korea/viewtopic.php?t=212553
And really, did I make some kind of conclusion by grouping a few experiences together? Did I say that they were all equal? I think what you neglected to pay attention to was the notion that there's no way to know if the other posters knew whether the comments heard were actually heard by the subject.
Do you want some more experiences? Some belong to people I know, but I can make sure they ALL involve obscenities if you like.
How about the time when I and a friend were eating at a food cart and I overheard two Koreans. The beginning, i can't remember very well, but it was about eating at the same food cart.
One of the Koreans said Im not eating from the same pot as a waeguk mongchongi.
Last edited by crescent on Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:07 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| Steelrails wrote: |
[q
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| Of course I've seen arguments and fights between Koreans. But I have never seen a Korean shout obscenities at another Korean for no reason other than they are in the same area |
Really? You've never seen teenage Korean girls yell insults and obscenities at random "ugly" girls passing by? You've never seen princesses make blindingly rude comments on other girls' fashion choices?
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Anyone who's taught in Korea for any length of time knows that certain students sometimes bully other students by making nasty comments or worse (more on this later) And that holds true even if the other student was sitting there quietly and not doing anything untoward. I've seen it happen more than once over the years and while admittedly not familiar with the history (if any) between them I rather doubt that every single victim did something first to earn the bully's ire. As a teacher I stamped that out fairly quickly but couldn't do anything about what may have happened after class.
In fact bullying at my last school ( a middle school) was a real problem. I once walked into school to see no less than seven students kneeling in the hallway writing stuff in their notebooks. When I asked the co-teacher about it it turns out these kids got picked on by some high school kids (had money and personal items taken).
But instead of reporting it, they went down the road to the elementary school and did the same thing to some elementary kids. So the kids went home and complained to their parents who called my school.
So the culprits ended up in the hallway, writing a "confession" And this wasn't a one time thing either. |
So now you're on to bullying? C'mon now. |
Just pointing that yes, sometimes for no reason some Koreans do use bad language and worse to other Koreans. After all you claimed that you were hassled by two young girls yourself so just keeping it relevant. Bullies will be bullies and tend to pick on someone who is different. As a foreigner here you are also different therefore a target. |
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chrisinkorea2011
Joined: 16 Jan 2011
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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Personally telling someone to "go slap yourself" really doesnt warrant too much nowadays, BUT i suppose it could depend on the area. Ive never told anyone that because i just said it out loud and it sounds retarded. If someone told me that i would ask them if they took their meds recently, not really get upset about it. but cmon guys cheer up, i got a video for you to watch!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=85WNaVTXVaI&ob=av3e
Now we know how JC truly thinks about the kids lol |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Bullying is not committed in full view such that anyone can see it happening. Bullies do it in secret, or with their own private gang because otherwise they would get caught.
As you said, bullying is used to extort from the victim, so obscenities are used as a tool in this regard, and not to just to insult someone. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
| crescent wrote: |
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| The point is that reason or no reason aside this kind of language is sometimes used by Koreans to other Koreans. (as at least three people have said now) So yes I'm not seeing the racism there. Nor far as I can see is anybody else. |
So, what you're saying is you teach selective comprehension?
I see, so just using obscene language is the same as directing it to insult someone in public?
Interesting. |
Except I didn't say that. Perhaps it is just your selective reading. |
I'm not a reading comprehension teacher, so I may make small mistakes. You said reason being not an issue, koreans use bad language to other koreans. Therefore you don't see any racism. So, if reason is aside, the two uses of bad language must be the same.
If i got that wrong, explain. |
I'm not quite sure what you mean by two uses of bad language. I thought I made it clear that the sole use of bad language in the cases I witnessed was to insult the other Korean. Regardless if they had a reason or not...said bad language is extremely unlikely to be racist if one is insulting someone of the same cultural background and lineage. One can call a Korean or a Westerner an idiot for example and still not be racist.
If there was a clear negative reference to your specific skin color then yes that's racist. |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:25 pm Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
Bullying is not committed in full view such that anyone can see it happening. Bullies do it in secret, or with their own private gang because otherwise they would get caught.
As you said, bullying is used to extort from the victim, so obscenities are used as a tool in this regard, and not to just to insult someone. |
Bullying is not always used to extort though. Sometimes it is just verbal hassling to make someone feel bad. And many bullies love an audience...just not anyone in authority there.
| Quote: |
Bullying can be defined as any continual, spiteful behaviour targeted at a person or persons that causes distress, anguish or pain. This includes, but is not limited to, unjustified criticism, exclusion from playground activities and groups, name-calling, being constantly criticised, belittled, humiliated, threatened, verbally abused, blackmailed emotionally or attacked physically.
More and more children are being exposed to "digital bullying", which involves sending malicious text or mobile phone messages. This issue has also been highlighted in the national news recently, which demonstrates that bullying can follow more sinister paths and does not necessarily mean face-to-face confrontation. Digital bullying can be more frightening in that it can often protect the anonymity of the bully and, hence, the victim becomes distrustful of everybody.
Types of Bullying
Bullying takes on many forms and there are several different types of bully. However, they all have the same result; they cause misery and stress-related illnesses to their victims.
The following are examples of types of bullying:
* Physical bullying
* Direct Verbal Bullying (Taunts, name-calling and verbal threats to the victim's face)
* Indirect Verbal Bullying (Cruel comments behind the victims back intended for the victim to overhear, unkind notes, letters, graffiti)
* Exclusion & Isolation Bullying (Deliberate exclusion from playground activities and friendship groups, or total ignorance of the victim. Often stands or sits alone at playtimes and is avoided in the classroom) |
http://articles.familylobby.com/98-how-to-handle-schoolyard-bullying.htm
Last edited by TheUrbanMyth on Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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I mean, bad language can be used when talking about someone, or it can be directed at someone geared to publicly insult them.
And I'm pretty sure racism covers more than skin color. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
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| crescent wrote: |
Bullying is not committed in full view such that anyone can see it happening. Bullies do it in secret, or with their own private gang because otherwise they would get caught.
As you said, bullying is used to extort from the victim, so obscenities are used as a tool in this regard, and not to just to insult someone. |
Bullying is not always used to extort though. Sometimes it is just verbal hassling to make someone feel bad. And many bullies love an audience...just not anyone in authority there.
| Quote: |
Bullying can be defined as any continual, spiteful behaviour targeted at a person or persons that causes distress, anguish or pain. This includes, but is not limited to, unjustified criticism, exclusion from playground activities and groups, name-calling, being constantly criticised, belittled, humiliated, threatened, verbally abused, blackmailed emotionally or attacked physically.
More and more children are being exposed to "digital bullying", which involves sending malicious text or mobile phone messages. This issue has also been highlighted in the national news recently, which demonstrates that bullying can follow more sinister paths and does not necessarily mean face-to-face confrontation. Digital bullying can be more frightening in that it can often protect the anonymity of the bully and, hence, the victim becomes distrustful of everybody.
Types of Bullying
Bullying takes on many forms and there are several different types of bully. However, they all have the same result; they cause misery and stress-related illnesses to their victims.
The following are examples of types of bullying:
* Physical bullying
* Direct Verbal Bullying (Taunts, name-calling and verbal threats to the victim's face)
* Indirect Verbal Bullying (Cruel comments behind the victims back intended for the victim to overhear, unkind notes, letters, graffiti)
* Exclusion & Isolation Bullying (Deliberate exclusion from playground activities and friendship groups, or total ignorance of the victim. Often stands or sits alone at playtimes and is avoided in the classroom) |
http://articles.familylobby.com/98-how-to-handle-schoolyard-bullying.htm |
Except you haven't shown me an instance where any bullying was committed in public view, by any kids who were not in it for extortion, or who were completely unfamiliar with the victim . |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 11:54 pm Post subject: |
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Except you posted it in a way that made it sound as though the people knew each other and were friends and weren't complete strangers.
You're also framing it in the sense "is it okay to tell someone being moronic to go slap themselves"
But there is a flip side to that- "If someone told you to go slap yourself, what would be your reaction"?
Keep it the bare essentials- two strangers having an argument, if one repeatedly told the other to "go slap yourself" would those be fightin words? Would that phrase be likely to provoke an at the least angry, and potentially violent reaction? |
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Steelrails
Joined: 12 Mar 2009
Location: Earth, Solar System
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:03 am Post subject: |
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| crescent wrote: |
| TheUrbanMyth wrote: |
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| crescent wrote: |
Bullying is not committed in full view such that anyone can see it happening. Bullies do it in secret, or with their own private gang because otherwise they would get caught.
As you said, bullying is used to extort from the victim, so obscenities are used as a tool in this regard, and not to just to insult someone. |
Bullying is not always used to extort though. Sometimes it is just verbal hassling to make someone feel bad. And many bullies love an audience...just not anyone in authority there.
| Quote: |
Bullying can be defined as any continual, spiteful behaviour targeted at a person or persons that causes distress, anguish or pain. This includes, but is not limited to, unjustified criticism, exclusion from playground activities and groups, name-calling, being constantly criticised, belittled, humiliated, threatened, verbally abused, blackmailed emotionally or attacked physically.
More and more children are being exposed to "digital bullying", which involves sending malicious text or mobile phone messages. This issue has also been highlighted in the national news recently, which demonstrates that bullying can follow more sinister paths and does not necessarily mean face-to-face confrontation. Digital bullying can be more frightening in that it can often protect the anonymity of the bully and, hence, the victim becomes distrustful of everybody.
Types of Bullying
Bullying takes on many forms and there are several different types of bully. However, they all have the same result; they cause misery and stress-related illnesses to their victims.
The following are examples of types of bullying:
* Physical bullying
* Direct Verbal Bullying (Taunts, name-calling and verbal threats to the victim's face)
* Indirect Verbal Bullying (Cruel comments behind the victims back intended for the victim to overhear, unkind notes, letters, graffiti)
* Exclusion & Isolation Bullying (Deliberate exclusion from playground activities and friendship groups, or total ignorance of the victim. Often stands or sits alone at playtimes and is avoided in the classroom) |
http://articles.familylobby.com/98-how-to-handle-schoolyard-bullying.htm |
Except you haven't shown me an instance where any bullying was committed in public view, by any kids who were not in it for extortion, or who were completely unfamiliar with the victim . |
So its your claim that this has NEVER happened in Korea?
Which is more likely- that something covering those criteria has happened in Korea or that it has NEVER happened in Korea?
I'd be willing to be that somewhere right now, its taking place. More than one place. I mean your claim that it doesn't happen at all is waaayyyy more of a stretch than ours when you think about it.
Is it seriously your claim that Koreans never randomly swear at or insult other Korean passerbys? You mean to tell me that Korean mafia guys or corporate bigwigs or spoiled brat boys or princesses NEVER do such a thing? |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:30 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
Except you posted it in a way that made it sound as though the people knew each other and were friends and weren't complete strangers.
You're also framing it in the sense "is it okay to tell someone being moronic to go slap themselves"
But there is a flip side to that- "If someone told you to go slap yourself, what would be your reaction"?
Keep it the bare essentials- two strangers having an argument, if one repeatedly told the other to "go slap yourself" would those be fightin words? Would that phrase be likely to provoke an at the least angry, and potentially violent reaction? |
Wow, this is getting weird. Still on the manliness thing? Ok, one more time, but it got old a few pages ago.
No, the scenario i laid was that we are acquainted. I am familiar with you in some way. We have been engaged in conversation in the past.
It just so happens were being moronic, just as you are right now...and people were free to disagree with me in the poll.
Still, once again, i'll have to object in that I only said you 'should' slap yourself in regard to a moronic comment. I never told you to go slap yourself. That was your own embellishment. You really need to twist my words don't you?
I said you should slap yourself once, framed among many sarcastic posts. You were priceless enough to refer to the rules of all men and i jumped on that by saying again to mock the fat that such a rule of men exists. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 12:42 am Post subject: |
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| Steelrails wrote: |
So its your claim that this has NEVER happened in Korea?
Which is more likely- that something covering those criteria has happened in Korea or that it has NEVER happened in Korea?
I'd be willing to be that somewhere right now, its taking place. More than one place. I mean your claim that it doesn't happen at all is waaayyyy more of a stretch than ours when you think about it.
Is it seriously your claim that Koreans never randomly swear at or insult other Korean passerbys? You mean to tell me that Korean mafia guys or corporate bigwigs or spoiled brat boys or princesses NEVER do such a thing? |
My claim is that I have never heard it in 10 years. What you are willing to bet on makes nothing but a fallacy occur. ...and in case you are still of the self imbibed impression that i think every insult is laden with racism, that is not my claim.
Listen, I'm not really here to convince you or anyone else. This discussion has been warped and i'm getting tired of going in circles with you and TUM.
I know you will not rest until you get the last word, so go for it.
If you hear anything.. it's just me chanting *de-fence! de-fence!* |
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Koharski
Mod Team
Joined: 20 Jul 2009
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| Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 2:02 am Post subject: |
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Ok, we have all had enough of this. If the same two people dominate the last 4 pages of a thread, then take it to PMs.
Koharski |
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