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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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 Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
| It's just that I know that Phili has had over 400 murders this year alone. And I also know that N.O. has had increadible levels of violence. |
You'd think the Philadelphia or New Orleans would be worse, but if you've been to Detroit, you would being amazed how much worse things can get.
I've driven through Philadelphia, and at does have some really good areas. New Orleans has the French Quarter. Detroit doesn't have any good area except for two blocks they call 'Greektown', which basically has the only two blocks of restaurants and security that anyone would really feel all that comfortable eating at - generally after a sporting event. Other than that, the entire town has a very desolate creepy feel after about 5pm as soon as people leave their downtown office (which happens QUICKLY). |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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thepeel:
I see you couldn't muster a rebuttal of the points I made in my previous post, which is not surprising given your utter lack of insider status on this issue.
you now claim:
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| Off hand I'd say that the two biggest barriers to a wide-spread increase in black socio-economic improvement are the state of schools in predominately black neighborhoods and the war on drugs. Not exclusively these, but dominantly. |
Oh, really? According to the U.S. Census and other government agencies, the SES of Blacks has been steadily rising for more than three decades. Time to get with the program.
And what do you suppose causes the crisis in the schools? Try lack of parental involvement (many Black mothers are too busy working to come to school and they've no husbands to help them in this task), a pervasive attitude that learning is a white thing and therefore uncool, and even indifference by a large percentage of minority teachers themselves. But you won't hear any of that in the liberal media.
Now here's something to make you scratch your head: When the SAT scores for Black students is categorized by SES--something ETS does but doesn't publish for public consumption--we find that most Black students in the highest income brackets score LESS than all but the bottom 20% of White and Asian test-takers.
How do you explain away that persistent result? I won't hold my breath waiting for an informed response.... |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Well stevie, you're making the argument that the past 300 years have nothing to do with the position of blacks today. That is as idiotic an opinion as one can hold. I have no need to address the drunken ramblings of a fool. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
You call my retort lame? You sidestepped my points more than once on this thread--now that's what I call lame. |
What exactly have I side-stepped? |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
| It's just that I know that Phili has had over 400 murders this year alone. And I also know that N.O. has had increadible levels of violence. |
You'd think the Philadelphia or New Orleans would be worse, but if you've been to Detroit, you would being amazed how much worse things can get.
I've driven through Philadelphia, and at does have some really good areas. New Orleans has the French Quarter. Detroit doesn't have any good area except for two blocks they call 'Greektown', which basically has the only two blocks of restaurants and security that anyone would really feel all that comfortable eating at - generally after a sporting event. Other than that, the entire town has a very desolate creepy feel after about 5pm as soon as people leave their downtown office (which happens QUICKLY). |
So do most of the wealthy from the Detroit area live in Ann Arbour?
Is Detriot really that bad?
I've only driven through the outskirts of D-Town while making m way from Windsor to northern Michigan. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 1:59 am Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
| Tiger Beer wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
| It's just that I know that Phili has had over 400 murders this year alone. And I also know that N.O. has had increadible levels of violence. |
You'd think the Philadelphia or New Orleans would be worse, but if you've been to Detroit, you would being amazed how much worse things can get.
I've driven through Philadelphia, and at does have some really good areas. New Orleans has the French Quarter. Detroit doesn't have any good area except for two blocks they call 'Greektown', which basically has the only two blocks of restaurants and security that anyone would really feel all that comfortable eating at - generally after a sporting event. Other than that, the entire town has a very desolate creepy feel after about 5pm as soon as people leave their downtown office (which happens QUICKLY). |
So do most of the wealthy from the Detroit area live in Ann Arbour?
Is Detriot really that bad?
I've only driven through the outskirts of D-Town while making m way from Windsor to northern Michigan. |
Ann Arbor is the University of Michigan. It's a huge college town. It's about an hour outside from the city. You have to pass through all the suburbs, then into rural area and out in the middle of the rural area, you'll come into Ann Arbor.
The wealthy live in Gross Point north of Detroit. Ann Arbor is just a highly educated college town (but not necessarily wealthy).
I read somewhere that the Detroit area is the mostly high segregated city in the United States. The highest percentage of caucasians live in the suburbs, and the highest percentage of africans live in the city itself. The Riots that tore up in the city in the late 1960s really expediated 'white flight'. That being said, they also have the most Arabic and Middle Easterners outside of the Middle East in the Detroit area (generally in the suburbs), but demographically I think they get counted as 'white' as the US census doesn't get beyond asian, black, white and latino.
If you drove from Windsor, you were right on the freeway. See any completely stripped abondoned cars along the freeways of Detroit or many abandoned buildings along that stretch of the freeway? (I always do!)
Is Detroit really all that bad? Yeah, I think so. I've driven around in there as adult just to confirm it was as scarey as I thought it was as a kid. It is. Predominately abondoned boarded-up buildings nearly everywhere. Most businesses that I saw were predominately liquor stores. Whatever business you see, if there is any glass whatsoever, you'll also have metal bars. If there is any kind of an attendant whatsover needed for the business (gas station, etc.), the guy will be surrounded by thick thick plexiglass AND the bars once again. Maybe not everywhere, but its common enough to be almost disturbing.
Years later when I moved to New York City, I felt MUCH more comfortable nearly anywhere in NYC than anywhere in Detroit. Then again, NYC is something like 150-something for 'most dangerous cities', so its nowhere in the same league as a Detroit, etc. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 2:19 am Post subject: |
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Still not as bad as Venezuela though eh?
I remember you telling us your experience there a while back.
How does Detriot compare to some of those Latin American cities? |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
Still not as bad as Venezuela though eh?
I remember you telling us your experience there a while back.
How does Detriot compare to some of those Latin American cities? |
Detroit's much worse.
Mainly because Latin American cities have all the wealth right downtown. It's the further you get away from the center that things get worse and worse. The poor live on the periphery, where the wealth and money is in close proximity to everything else. (The U.S. is the exact opposite, where people with money seem to want to be as far away as possible from the urban 'decay' of many of the U.S. cities).
So, in Brazil, for example, as the poor live further out, you'd never walk into the 'fravelas', but there really is no reason you have to anyways. In U.S. cities, quite a few 'cool things' are right downtown like large sports stadiums, concerts, etc. If they were in the Latin American equivalent, they'd be in the shantytowns on the periphery.
Crime-wise they are probably the same, although I think statistically Colombia and Brazil are much worse. But because downtown Detroit is so eerily empty all of the time, the sense that anything could happen and no one would even know seems to be much higher than a crowded Latin American city where you'd have tons of witnesses walking around. Plus all the boarded up windows, bars on nearly everything, and thick plexiglass add to the Detroit eeriness.
My thoughts on that anyways. |
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sojourner1
Joined: 17 Apr 2007
Location: Where meggi swim and 2 wheeled tractors go sput put chug alugg pug pug
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:23 am Post subject: |
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Why does America lack new economic growth outside of investing overseas? It would help to create jobs, new products, and reinvent what we call America. Americas business leaders have been too busy investing in Asia and India trying to get larger profit margins while they left their own people behind and put their country into a bad position.
I know there is a gentrification trend to rehab the downtown of many US cities, but it is not lifting boats, it is only a playing around thing the rich are doing in wishing to restore the historic districts.
While this is plausable, it is not the comprehensive economic developement needed to make Americas great cities to be places that people can be proud of, be happy about, and feel safe to walk in. Only the Chinese dare risk setting up new businesses outside of the small area of gentrificaiton where young white people inheriting money go after college. Typically you have lofts, nightclubs, and upscale restaurants, but no practical services like a super market or a post office that actually caters to eBay sellers and people doing business. The job market in these sorts of places lacks severly as you have to bring money instead of going there to find opportunity. I know since I lived in such a place in downtown St. Louis during college up until a year ago and looked high and low for career opportunity that just doesn't exist. All I seen were poor black people begging, struggling, and praying things get fixed and white people dabbling in real estate while they ate at fancy restaurants and the coffee shops. The rich affluent scene was all in a 8 city block area, but if you stepped off of that, you were in no white mans land, but desperate beggars came to rich mans street since the police could not arrest them on account of racist claims. The racism and segregation is done through economics more so than by physical force. Our economic model is one real flawed social design mechanism. It's sick shettttt.
We need the real money making and job development kind of gentrification such as new factories and offices who produce and market new innovative products, not just lofts, night clubs, and pretty places.
We need innovative investing, new technological innovations, and new products that make the new generation prosperous like how the baby boomers had it and to keep the American legacy of success going! It obviously will not be done in the old way, but it needs to be done. Why not? If I were a billionaire, I sure would have a go at leading American people to be empowered to do it again for the new generation and do it big.
I feel we deserve a lot more...Our freedoms and livelihoods are being lost is one thing we know for sure. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:12 pm Post subject: |
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thepeel blew smoke:
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| Well stevie, you're making the argument that the past 300 years have nothing to do with the position of blacks today. That is as idiotic an opinion as one can hold. I have no need to address the drunken ramblings of a fool. |
Translation from DoubleSpeak:
I really can't respond specifically to your rebuttals as that would reveal my utter ignorance in this regard, so I'll just try to blow smoke up your butt instead by relying on ad hominem attacks.
P.S. I don't drink, but thanks for playing. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Yeah. Those darn black people. Why don't they just pull themselves up by their bootstraps like good ol' white people? |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 10:55 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
East St. Louis is mostly black, is it not? |
yes, but it is not on the list. St. Louis and east st. louis are next to each other, but I'm sure they are different stats wise. Kinda like Oakland-San Francisco, Camden-Philly.
Not to defend east st. louis or anything, just making the clarification.
I've lived in two of the top 5 (oakland and st. louis). I am proof that there is one can easily live in a world isolated from the rougher parts of a city. And I liked both cities, although St. Louis is on the duller side. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 10:17 am Post subject: |
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Here is a real uplifting story from Richmond (#9):
Immigrant Pizza deliveryman shot to death
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RICHMOND - A pizza deliveryman trying to find an address in Richmond was shot and killed during a possible robbery attempt, police said today.
Thanh Thach, 38, a father of two who lived in Richmond with his wife, was shot about 9 p.m. Monday as he was trying to deliver a Pizza Hut pie on South 45th Street, authorities said. |
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| Thach had lived in the United States for 13 years and became a citizen in September, his wife said. She called it the happiest day of his life. |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:49 am Post subject: |
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I think it needs to be asked:
WHY are crimes committed.
I think a sense of hopelessness is the most important factor? This doesn't have to come about from poverty but it's ignorant to assume that has nothing to do with it. And it's ignorant to think that poverty has nothing to do with this "because there are poor white people".
To think that it's a race issue is ALSO absurd. Unless someone is willing to completely disregard the idea of the equality of man and firmly belief that some races are inferior (or "different" in a derogatory sense), how could you belief it's a race issue?
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And what do you suppose causes the crisis in the schools? Try lack of parental involvement (many Black mothers are too busy working to come to school and they've no husbands to help them in this task), a pervasive attitude that learning is a white thing and therefore uncool, and even indifference by a large percentage of minority teachers themselves. But you won't hear any of that in the liberal media. |
And that's because the liberal media is fukcin' psychotic.
I can't help but get the impression that EVERYTHING you've EVER known about "black inner city culture" comes from a "Barbershop" movie.
[/quote] |
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khyber
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Compunction Junction
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| Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2007 11:57 am Post subject: |
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Now here's something to make you scratch your head: When the SAT scores for Black students is categorized by SES--something ETS does but doesn't publish for public consumption--we find that most Black students in the highest income brackets score LESS than all but the bottom 20% of White and Asian test-takers. |
FEel free to make fun of my ignorance but I'll be honest, in the hopes of getting an actual response because I'm quite intrigued by this idea:
1) I know what the SAT scores are but what is SES?
2) What is ETS?
3) Why are marks catagorized "by SES"? What is the importance of SES and what are the implications of using SES?
4) Where did you get this info?
5) What is the point of using SES to catagorize SAT results.
I'll tell you, I've been subbing back here in Canada now since september and the average black kid performs EXACTLY like the average white kid.
I'm pretty skeptical of this and it would be a bitter pill for me to swallow if this gets sufficiently supported. But I'm going to have to wait me thinks. |
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