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mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
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 Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2008 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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how was the pre-1978 views of mormonism any less repulsive than those of christianity today? i was brought up catholic. if you aren't baptised, according to them, you cannot go to heaven. you burn in hell. gandhi is in hell. IIRC, in muslim and jewish theology, if one is not a follower of their "-ism" then one is a lesser child of god. full of scary tribalist yahoo.
all religions are equal. |
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Kepler
Joined: 24 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| What does a religion have to do to be accepted as a mainstream religion? Besides removing the ban on blacks receiving the priesthood, Mormons have made other changes in the past 30 years. They got rid of the death oaths and naked touching part in their temple ceremony. They no longer expect homosexuals to change their orientation. They just expect them to be celibate. They no longer insist that the main ancestors of the American Indians came from Israel. Their recently deceased prophet has tried to downplay some of the more controversial aspects of Mormonism in interviews with the media. When he was asked by Time Magazine about the Mormon doctrine that God was once a man his reply was something like, "I don't know that we teach that." Other religions have gone through a similiar process. Catholics, for example, no longer torture and burn suspected witches and heretics. |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Mormonism is no more ridiculous and fantastic than any other branch of Christianity (transubstantiation anyone?), but it is unpardonably modern in its provenance -- everyone knows that "real" religions have the decency to locate their prophets and their more ludicrous claims in far antiquity, rendering them more resistant to challenge.
What is a cult? A religion that doesn't have enough members to demand respect. QED. |
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thepeel
Joined: 08 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| mistermasan wrote: |
how was the pre-1978 views of mormonism any less repulsive than those of christianity today? i was brought up catholic. if you aren't baptised, according to them, you cannot go to heaven. you burn in hell. gandhi is in hell. IIRC, in muslim and jewish theology, if one is not a follower of their "-ism" then one is a lesser child of god. full of scary tribalist yahoo.
all religions are equal. |
Religions are all equally wrong, but not all equal. Have you heard of the Jains? Why no suicide bombers in Tibet? Why no mass pedophilia among Lutherans? The things people believe alter the way they behave, and therefore the content of the books is important. And the books are all very different and teach very different base moralities. It would make us feel good if Buddhism and islam created the same cultural outcomes, but they don't.
I like Bill Maher's idea. Combine mormonism with scientology. Mormontology. The space gods can figure out the details. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| thepeel wrote: |
| mistermasan wrote: |
how was the pre-1978 views of mormonism any less repulsive than those of christianity today? i was brought up catholic. if you aren't baptised, according to them, you cannot go to heaven. you burn in hell. gandhi is in hell. IIRC, in muslim and jewish theology, if one is not a follower of their "-ism" then one is a lesser child of god. full of scary tribalist yahoo.
all religions are equal. |
Religions are all equally wrong, but not all equal. Have you heard of the Jains? Why no suicide bombers in Tibet? Why no mass pedophilia among Lutherans? The things people believe alter the way they behave, and therefore the content of the books is important. And the books are all very different and teach very different base moralities.
It would make us feel good if Buddhism and islam created the same cultural outcomes, but they don't.
I like Bill Maher's idea. Combine mormonism with scientology. Mormontology. The space gods can figure out the details. |
Buddhists believe in karma, whereas fundamentalist Muslims e.g. believe in killing the infidel non-believer.
Isn't Romney a Freemason in sheep's clothing? |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you have any proof that Romney is a member of the Freemasons? AFAIK, he has never joined that benevolent organization. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Jan 29, 2008 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
Do you have any proof that Romney is a member of the Freemasons?
AFAIK, he has never joined that benevolent organization. |
AFAIK? Scientology speak?
He's a Mormon. They're Freemasons by another name  |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| CentralCali wrote: |
Do you have any proof that Romney is a member of the Freemasons?
AFAIK, he has never joined that benevolent organization. |
AFAIK? Scientology speak? |
No, it stands for As Far As I Know. It's a fairly common abbreviation on Internet forums.
That's right.
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| They're Freemasons by another name |
No, they're not. When you come to your senses, the tin industry's stocks are going to nosedive. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:18 am Post subject: |
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| It's fairly well known that when the charlatan Joseph Smith was casting about for ways to dress up his scam to make it look and feel like something legitimate, he "borrowed" heavily from freemasonry. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
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| Lots of ignorant things people think they know about Mormons aren't true. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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| Lots of ignorant things Mormons think they know about themselves aren't true. |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
| Lots of ignorant things Mormons think they know about themselves aren't true. |
Willing suspension of disbelief is no more prominent in Mormonism than it is in any other religion. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
| Lots of ignorant things Mormons think they know about themselves aren't true. |
Willing suspension of disbelief is no more prominent in Mormonism than it is in any other religion. |
Perhaps, though they do have to work harder for it, since the historical record laying waste to their beliefs about themselves is much more recent and much clearer. By my reckoning, it won�t be more than another couple of years before they claim Africans have always been firmly in the Church�s bosom and that any claim to the contrary is an evil lie. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| daskalos wrote: |
And while I'm on the subject, of all the categories covered by discrimination law, the one least deserving of inclusion in the list is religion, since it's (arguably) the only category in the list over which a person exercises choice. A Satanist, for instance, has every right to choose his faith, but that right does not extend to demanding that no one draw any negative conclusions about him as a person on the basis of those beliefs. |
That may not be a good example. A Mormon on the job is not protected from people drawing negative conclusions about him as a person. A Mormon is protected from people acting against him purely on the basis on the Mormon's creed.
Protection of peoples' beliefs is absolutely essential, not least because if we allow discrimination based against those who profess to believe in, say, Scientology, than it is possible that people will accuse their professional rivals of being Scientologists. |
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daskalos
Joined: 19 May 2006
Location: The Road to Ithaca
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| Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2008 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| daskalos wrote: |
And while I'm on the subject, of all the categories covered by discrimination law, the one least deserving of inclusion in the list is religion, since it's (arguably) the only category in the list over which a person exercises choice. A Satanist, for instance, has every right to choose his faith, but that right does not extend to demanding that no one draw any negative conclusions about him as a person on the basis of those beliefs. |
That may not be a good example. A Mormon on the job is not protected from people drawing negative conclusions about him as a person. A Mormon is protected from people acting against him purely on the basis on the Mormon's creed.
Protection of peoples' beliefs is absolutely essential, not least because if we allow discrimination based against those who profess to believe in, say, Scientology, than it is possible that people will accuse their professional rivals of being Scientologists. |
Granted. I don't think it should be removed from the list. But neither should their beliefs give them the right to discriminate on the basis of their beliefs, as is often the case. |
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