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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
Once again, you list Florida in her wins and once again you distort the truth. Florida's delegates DON'T COUNT! |
Their 27 electoral votes sure count.
| stillnotking wrote: |
She just did:
Quote:
As you can see, the campaign ad has darkened Obama's skin tone, while stretching the video horizontally to give Obama a wider nose.
Yikes. Check out the image comparisons (I can't post images so you'll have to follow the link). The Hillary campaign blatantly manipulated an Obama head shot to make him appear more African. |
I believe this is what's called 'playing-the-race-card.' And it doesn't surprise me its some white, affluent, liberal blogger tool doing it, either.
Last edited by Kuros on Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:33 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
Once again, you list Florida in her wins and once again you distort the truth. Florida's delegates DON'T COUNT! |
Their 27 electoral votes sure count. |
They're gonna revote, along with MI, as soon as they figure out how to fund it. Obama would rather not seat the delegates at all, but unlike some Democratic candidates he is looking ahead to his party's chances in the general election.
| Kuros wrote: |
| Quote: |
She just did:
Quote:
As you can see, the campaign ad has darkened Obama's skin tone, while stretching the video horizontally to give Obama a wider nose.
Yikes. Check out the image comparisons (I can't post images so you'll have to follow the link). The Hillary campaign blatantly manipulated an Obama head *beep* to make him appear more African. |
I believe this is what's called 'playing-the-race-card.' And it doesn't surprise me its some white, affluent, liberal blogger tool doing it, either. |
You take that back! Hillary does not have a blog! |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 7:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Quote: |
She just did:
Quote:
As you can see, the campaign ad has darkened Obama's skin tone, while stretching the video horizontally to give Obama a wider nose.
Yikes. Check out the image comparisons (I can't post images so you'll have to follow the link). The Hillary campaign blatantly manipulated an Obama head *beep* to make him appear more African. |
I believe this is what's called 'playing-the-race-card.' And it doesn't surprise me its some white, affluent, liberal blogger tool doing it, either. |
You take that back! Hillary does not have a blog! |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
Once again, you list Florida in her wins and once again you distort the truth. Florida's delegates DON'T COUNT! |
Their 27 electoral votes sure count.
| Quote: |
She just did:
Quote:
As you can see, the campaign ad has darkened Obama's skin tone, while stretching the video horizontally to give Obama a wider nose.
Yikes. Check out the image comparisons (I can't post images so you'll have to follow the link). The Hillary campaign blatantly manipulated an Obama head *beep* to make him appear more African. |
I believe this is what's called 'playing-the-race-card.' And it doesn't surprise me its some white, affluent, liberal blogger tool doing it, either. |
First off, I didn't make that arguement, you copied pasted it from somewhere on the internet. I clearly believe playing the race card from either campaign is wrong. Don't quote me and then throw in a random quote from someone else. I'm not playing that game.
Second, Florida does not count in the primary, you know that. Stop repeating things that are not true. Yes, it will count in the general election and whomever the nominee is will have to campaign there. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
Once again, you list Florida in her wins and once again you distort the truth. Florida's delegates DON'T COUNT! |
Their 27 electoral votes sure count.
| Quote: |
She just did:
Quote:
As you can see, the campaign ad has darkened Obama's skin tone, while stretching the video horizontally to give Obama a wider nose.
Yikes. Check out the image comparisons (I can't post images so you'll have to follow the link). The Hillary campaign blatantly manipulated an Obama head *beep* to make him appear more African. |
I believe this is what's called 'playing-the-race-card.' And it doesn't surprise me its some white, affluent, liberal blogger tool doing it, either. |
First off, I didn't make that arguement, you copied pasted it from somewhere on the internet. I clearly believe playing the race card from either campaign is wrong. Don't quote me and then throw in a random quote from someone else. I'm not playing that game. |
Yeah, that quote was from StillNotKing. Sorry for the confusion.
| Quote: |
| Second, Florida does not count in the primary, you know that. Stop repeating things that are not true. Yes, it will count in the general election and whomever the nominee is will have to campaign there. |
I never suggested that Florida counted in the primary. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Ok, apology accepted |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| It won't happen, but it would be great if they would just agree to be co-President. Hillary can take some issues, Obama others. Hillary could be in charge of healthcare, Obama in charge of diplomacy. Or a better idea might be to set them both as triumphs, a la Rome. I really hope the Dems don't screw things up. Again. |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:25 am Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| It won't happen, but it would be great if they would just agree to be co-President. Hillary can take some issues, Obama others. Hillary could be in charge of healthcare, Obama in charge of diplomacy. Or a better idea might be to set them both as triumphs, a la Rome. I really hope the Dems don't screw things up. Again. |
Yeah, well:
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Whew!
I was concerned for a while that the Democrats wouldn't find some way to lose this year. Clearly they faced an extremely challenging environment: their opponents have destroyed the country and plan to nominate an angry gnome whose platform is "I will destroy this country harder!" It was obvious it would take discipline, hard work and more than a little luck for the Democrats to pull this one out of the fire and lose.
But you should NEVER count the Democrats out. Remember, these are the people who managed to lose to the mighty Bush/Quayle ticket in 1988. Do you believe in miracles? |
Hillary throws the kitchen sink at Obama, Obama throws the kitchen sink at Hillary, their voters all end up hating each other and McCain wins the general. This scenario is looking less far-fetched all the time.
I can say positively that if Hillary gets the nomination without having the pledged delegate lead, I will not vote for her. In all likelihood I'd never vote for any Democrat ever again. I'm already hanging by a thread when it comes to the Dems, and that would snap it. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
| I can say positively that if Hillary gets the nomination without having the pledged delegate lead, I will not vote for her. In all likelihood I'd never vote for any Democrat ever again. I'm already hanging by a thread when it comes to the Dems, and that would snap it. |
There are a lot of people who feel the same way including myself. Clinton believes the superdelegates are going to come in and overturn the pledged delegates by appointing her the nominee.
I've said at least three times now that Clinton should focus on winning the pledge delegates and start winning small, red and caucus states instead of going off on these side issues. It shouldn't be too surprising that I've had zero Clinton supporters agree with me. It goes to show you what is really important in their world. |
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Otherside
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
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As a non-American I find the process of the US elections fascinating. I've followed the elections in the past, but this is the first time I've really followed the primaries (A lot has to do with the HUGE news coverage this time around). I have a few questions, perhaps someone can answer.
I understand how the electoral college works, but the system seems different for primaries?
How is the weighting for each state calculated - Is it based on the population or on the size of the party's support base in that state? (Also it's interesting the democrats use a proportional representation model).
A huge fuss was made by Hillary regarding her support in Texas, (which was proven in the polls). However, isn't Texas VERY MUCH a red state? In the presidential election The Reps will win Texas and the Dems will get 0 seats from the state, so why does her support base in Texas matter? The same could be said about a collection of other states (some of which are pro-Obama).
Wouldn't it be good to give an extra weighting to the traditional swing states? ie. Florida, These are states which can go either blue or red come the presidential election and in many ways decide the election. A candidate with strong support in those states will be more likely to win the presidential election??
Thanks for anyone who decides to give me a quick lesson in "American Elections 101" |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:15 pm Post subject: |
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Otherside: Wikipedia has a pretty good explanation of how the Dem primaries work.
One thing to keep in mind: neither super delegates nor "pledged" delegates are obligated to vote for the candidate they say they're going to vote for. Super delegates are not committed at all until the vote is taken on the convention floor; pledged delegates are at least nominally committed, and a defection by a pledged delegate would probably be regarded as a breach of faith.
You are correct about the safe state/swing state issue, but only to some extent. The biggest problem is that no one knows how much of one Democrat's support would transfer to the other Democrat if s/he should be the nominee in November. Also, how well a candidate does among a state's Democrats is not necessarily indicative of how well the candidate will do among the entire voting population of the state. But in general, yes, having a candidate who appeals to swing-state voters is important. This is one criticism that is leveled against Hillary's "I win big states" argument -- the biggest states, with the exceptions of Florida and Ohio, are not swing states. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
I've said at least three times now that Clinton should focus on winning the pledge delegates and start winning small, red and caucus states instead of going off on these side issues. It shouldn't be too surprising that I've had zero Clinton supporters agree with me. It goes to show you what is really important in their world. |
What do you mean you've had zero Clinton supporters agree with you? I've said before that Mark Penn's strategy is flawed. What I find insufferable about you is not simply your Clinton hatred, its your blinkered worldview wherein supporters of Clinton are your personal opponents.
So, it's with joy that I post this.
| Quote: |
I'd been assuming that Hillary Clinton wasn't going to contest Wyoming, on the grounds that caucus states, red states, and all-white states normally don't count, but it seems she's in it to win it according to Politico:
Now she has five staffers on the ground in Wyoming, where caucuses take place Saturday and where 18 delegates are at stake. Bill Clinton will make three stops there Thursday, and local supporters are trying to arrange a visit from the candidate herself Friday, said Kathy Karpan, a former Democratic candidate for Wyoming governor who is one of Clinton�s leading supporters in the state.
�I think we can win,� Karpan said, citing �the connection that the Clintons have with people in our state,� a network of support built during their White House years, when they vacationed at Jackson Hole.
Interesting. I think everyone's mentally pencilled Wyoming in as an Obama state, but of course there's been no polling there nor was there in the other Wyoming-esque states that Obama won earlier in the cycle. Nobody really knows what such innovations as staff and candidate visits might be able to do for Clinton's fortunes. |
She's learning her lesson. |
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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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| Posted: Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
I've said at least three times now that Clinton should focus on winning the pledge delegates and start winning small, red and caucus states instead of going off on these side issues. It shouldn't be too surprising that I've had zero Clinton supporters agree with me. It goes to show you what is really important in their world. |
What do you mean you've had zero Clinton supporters agree with you? I've said before that Mark Penn's strategy is flawed. What I find insufferable about you is not simply your Clinton hatred, its your blinkered worldview wherein supporters of Clinton are your personal opponents.
She's learning her lesson. |
Actually you have never agreed with me until now. It has nothing to do with hatred of Clinton or a blinkered worldview, it's about reality. That's a place Clinton supporters haven't touched basis with the last few months. All I'm doing is pointing out the flaws in her campaign's strategy. You(as well as the Clinton campaign) have continued to support the idea that superdelegates will come racing in and that they will back Clinton in mass (and please go ahead and deny you said that).
Maybe it's YOU that ought to get a bit thicker skin
Last edited by Milwaukiedave on Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 2:41 am Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| It won't happen, but it would be great if they would just agree to be co-President. Hillary can take some issues, Obama others. Hillary could be in charge of healthcare, Obama in charge of diplomacy. Or a better idea might be to set them both as triumphs, a la Rome. I really hope the Dems don't screw things up. Again. |
I think Hillary Clinton would probably choose Obama as a running mate if she barely beats him, because he would then be an asset to have, because she could, perhaps, gain his supporters which she will need in the fight against McCain. If Hillary would say this, it would also leave room for her to possibly be Vice President under Obama. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 07, 2008 5:56 am Post subject: |
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| Milwaukiedave wrote: |
Actually you have never agreed with me until now. |
Wrong. I don't even know how you can claim to know that. The truth is that I will rarely feel compelled to express my agreements with you, if I were to have any.
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| It has nothing to do with hatred of Clinton or a blinkered worldview, it's about reality. That's a place Clinton supporters haven't touched basis with the last few months. |
Wrong. I predicted a TX/OH win. It came. Reality.
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| All I'm doing is pointing out the flaws in her campaign's strategy. |
Erm, no. You're doing more than that. You're pestering me, since I'm the only vocal Clinton supporter on this site, to answer for the flaws of her campaign. You can't separate the campaign apparatus from the individuals who support Clinton.
I'm going to say it to you again and again until it sinks in(because I know you can't help yourself), I AM NOT MARK PENN.
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| Maybe it's YOU that ought to get a bit thicker skin |
Translation: I ought to sit here and let you misrepresent me. |
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