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ulsanchris
Joined: 19 Jun 2003
Location: take a wild guess
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 Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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I would say its best to do things legally and it seems you are doing that. Along with some other I would urge you to tell immigration that your boss is holding your arc. That is unacceptable. They shoudn't have it for any reason.
As for your airfare. YOu might want to try to negotiate paying half of the fare back. Sounds like this might not work with your boss. |
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hadeshorn
Joined: 30 Jul 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:17 pm Post subject: |
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I honestly dont understand why you gave them your alien card. If my school asked for it. I would tell them to go bite themselves as its mine.. Not yours. Remember its just a place of employment. Not your parents!
Pre-emptive Gord strike...
BITE ME |
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Kristy Hibbitt
Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:23 pm Post subject: |
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Well, its not easy to tell your school to "Bite Me" when they are withholding a couple of grand and I need to send it home. I am going to ask to pay half the airfare and see if they'll accept that.
I have heard from the owner of another school that my school are known for bribing immigration(not sure if this is true), which is why I wanted the info for going through immigration and the chances of getting stopped or arrested. I didn't want to involve immigration and the labor board because I didn't want things to get nasty and have them not pay me but it looks like I'm going to have to.
I'm also supposed to get paid today for last month and as yet its not in the bank. I will check again in a few hours. Thanks for the help guys. As yet, I don't want to name my school until I'm out of the country. Then I'll put a post up telling people about it. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 8:36 pm Post subject: |
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OK,ok, it seems like Kristy is at a bad school. Many are bad, but not all. Eamo, thats why I said I had a problem with people running from OK schools. If the school treats you like it has Kristy, then yes, head for the airport.
I really think Korean employers should do away with the free air ticket. Taiwan used to offer it but stopped because so many teachers ripped it off. In addition, they should make 6 month renewable contracts commonplace. A year is too long in many cases, especially when hiring a teacher with no experience.
Kristy you complain you had no experience, but who's fault is that? You could've taken a TEFL course or something first which would've set you up with a lot of ideas before you even came out.
There are schools that offer an induction/training period at the start- mostly the larger chain franchises.
At this point in time, my advice is to get the **** out, paying the 100.000w fine at the airport if you have to.
If they're holding your money illegally, The labor board should be able to help you out. If you have to pay back half the airfare, just do it..
Cut your losses best you can and put it all behind you.
The fundamental blame lies with shoddy hakwons, who will happily employ an inexperienced and unqualified person and expect miracles. What do they expect? |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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| eamo wrote: |
| rapier wrote: |
Thankyou Corporal. I have a problem with people fleeing Ok schools just cos they feel like it. Undermines the position of people who take their teaching half seriously and stay out here a long time. We end up having security deposits and all sorts of mechanisms in our contracts because employers here are sick of tearaways coming out here and running.
I reckon that esl teachers should at least have some experience of travelling/backpacking, living in another country, before they even think of signing a years contract in a new, alien country such as Korea.
Either that, or hakwons must stop signing up 20yr old grads fresh out of uni, who've never left their hometown before.
Cheers. |
I don't agree. You think people should live out their 12 months in an unhappy situation?
We are not bound by the contract to that extent. It works the same way at home. If you really don't like a job the you should leave it. Why see yourself as a prisoner to a contract?
Korean hagwon contracts are generally made out so as a teacher who leaves early loses out money-wise. That's fair. But to say that we should all work the 12 months no matter what is too absolute for me. |
I have had this "midnight run" problem happen to me. Dunno why the guy ditched, though I think it is because he couldn't handle the Koreans. I can see why people do it though, because the nature of man is GREEDY. Why pay what the law states you should pay? Just take your money, then screw over the next person, screw over your fellow co-workers etc.
I agree with rapier...those who do midnight runs screw those of us with intergrity. Or those who just quit. The F2-F4 visa crowd can be a pain in the arse too. Who has to cover those classes? Guys like ME. Who has to pay more "deposits" or wait until the end of the contract for airfare etc. Yeah the guys who stick it out get burned. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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Oh and to the OP - WHY would you give your ARC to your boss. DEMAND that card back ASAP. If security tries to stop you, call the police, and have the police escort you off the premises.
Sounds like you work at a Nazi type hawgwon. Cameras, security guards, dorm rooms WTF!!!
Also I don't think you should get a free ride with the plane tickets either. You didn't fulfill your side of the contract.
I think if you had a good hawgwon you could have just got a 1 month Leave of Absense. But by the sound of it, sounds like you WANT to get away as much as visit your Nana.
Keep us updated! |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Tue Nov 04, 2003 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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By the way,
Sorry to hear about your grandma. Hope she pulls through so you guys can make some more memories. I lost my grandfather this year. It stings.  |
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Basil Brush
Joined: 13 Apr 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 5:37 am Post subject: Why doesn't Kristy Hibbitt find a replacement? |
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Going back to Kristy Hibbitt's first post on this thread.
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" My school have now asked for the airfare back that they paid to get me here even tho its not in my contract. They claim its for recruiter fees etc. They then said that if I find a replacement within Korea I don't have to pay it back."
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And noting her post on Tue Nov 04, 2003 5:05 am:
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| "If B(me) breaks the contract for personal reasons B has to provide written notice and work until a replacement teacher arrives." |
It seems that Kristy Hibbitt has a choice. She can find another teacher and not pay any air ticket related costs. It has been well documented on this bulletine board that jobs are scarce to find in Seoul. So surely it would be easy, costless and quick to post on: http://www.eslcafe.com/jobs/wanted/
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Alternatively she can wait until the school finds another teacher. If she doesn't find another teacher her salary will be deducted with the airline ticket. She could, for the reasons outlined below, later dispute this at a small claims court:
 If the instute takes the equivalent of a round trip ticket from the teacher and we safely assume, at some point, that the teacher would go home, we have a problem. The teacher paid for the equivalent of three single trips, for only two trips. This teacher would be punished for no fault of her own; a member of her family in a life threatening predicament.
So could the institute not apply the charge for the airline ticket pro-rata as some waygug-in and justagirl suggest? If the teacher was charged pro-rata, then a teacher leaving at six months would have half the airline ticket to pay. The teacher would have paid for and got two trips. Would that not be fair for Kristy Hibbitt?
 Going further, if the teacher worked an equivalent of a one way trip, i.e. six months, then the teacher has nothing further to pay. The institute can get a refund from the airline company. If the institute has not purchased a refundable ticket, then it could be argued that it's the institute's problem*.
And if the wording of the contract is taken literally and surely it is, then the institute hasn't provided a ticket yet. If the institute hasn't provided a ticket yet, then there is no issue. And if the institute presents evidence to state that they have provided a ticket, well it's not part of the contract. It's a gift.  .
*However, it could be argued that the institute assumed that the contract would have been completed. Unfortunately the institute put a clause stating that : "If B(me) breaks the contract for personal reasons B has to provide written notice and work until a replacement teacher arrives?" It is thus safe to state that the institute didn't assume that the contract would be completed. And what would happen if the institute prevented the teacher from completing the contract? The institute would then be unable to get their money back from a non-refundable ticket. Surely a prudent manager would pay a premium for a refundable ticket? Surely one person shouldn't pay for another's incompetence?
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Gord's
| Quote: |
| It comes down to property law. So basically "the law" does state she does indeed have to pay the airfare. |
Property law, eh?  There are two types of property law. Neither are applicable unless Korean law bizzarely labels this property law. And if it does please give a reference. Here is a US reference to support my point: http://www.pacle.org/typesof.htm |
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erlyn
Joined: 08 Jun 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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I believe she said she worked outside of Seoul, making it harder for her to find a replacement.
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| I have actively been looking for a replacement and have had a few offers but noone seems willing to look beyond the boundaries of Seoul at the moment. |
edited, because I suck at those taggy things |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 4:39 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="mack the knife"]As Gord stated:
EVERY contract I have ever read (or heard of) states that airfare is part of a 12 month deal. Why would anyone assume otherwise. It just doesn't make sense. 
Well let's just look at this:
JOBS FOR ALL GRADUATES - TEACH ENGLISH IN KOREA!
No ESL Training or experience required. You are now a ten minute phone call away from a new life in Korea! Our company is directly affiliated with one of the oldest and best-established English instructional school systems in Korea, and we have *immediate* openings for wonderful jobs teaching conversational English in schools throughout the country.
If you are a native speaker of English, and have a bachelors degree of *any kind* degree from a university in an English-speaking country, we have a great job waiting for you in Korea.
* Bonus of one month salary upon completion of one year con tract.
* Competitive Salary (CDN $2100 to $2900 per month US $ 1300 to 1800)
* Only 3.3 to 6 % Tax deduction
* Round trip Airfare
* Holidays & Vacation
* Work is only six hours a day plus one hour or
less class preparation. Employer provides all daily teaching materials.
* Substantialy boost your earnings with optional
overtime work if wanted.
* Free accommodation in furnished apartment shared
with one or two other instructors, or in your own apartment.
* Medical insurance.
* No pre-employment interview with the employer;
you sign the contract to teach from Canada or the U.S.
* We obtain your one-year Korean work-visa for you.
* Encounter an intriguing new culture, while working as a highly respected professional helping Koreans to learn English. 
There is no mention about having to complete the year to get the airfare.
There are many similar such ads, not all, but many. They are misleading the new teachers with these kinds of ads and then they will usually drop the airfare thing on you if and when a problem arises. I would be willing to bet that the OP responded to an ad similar to this one.
Recruiters and schools are deliberately mis-representing the conditions of the contract and as such I believe the school should pro-rate the airfare. This is only fair. It's quite likely that this won't happen, but I'm just saying that in all fairness the school should pay half the airfare for working 6 months.
If they are going to mis-lead people right from the get go, they should have to pay the price. That's my 2 cents worth 
cheers |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 6:44 pm Post subject: |
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The ads you read on the internet are NOT contracts. Of course they don't mention every little detail, such as "You're supposed to work the 12 months to receive the free apartment and airfare, dummy. Why would we give free crap to your sorry, just-out-of-college ass." That's the exact wording in every contract I have ever read (dozens).
Last edited by mack the knife on Wed Nov 05, 2003 10:26 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Kristy Hibbitt
Joined: 27 Oct 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 8:12 pm Post subject: |
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Well I was paid properly for the last month that I worked and have decided not to just up and leave. I am going to do the right thing and accept whatever happens.
I have been trying to find a replacement but I find it difficult to recommend the school after what has happened to me. I assume however that such problems and issues have arisen because I want to break my contract. People have stayed here a year and have had no problems.
As such I have given 3 resumes of willing applicants to my school in the last week and now it is their decision. The only reason that they won't find a replacement is because they are deliberately not going to hire anyone.
I am going to speak to my school director(whenever he tells me he's not too busy) and ask if he will consider accepting half the airfare if a suitable replacement can't be found.
I like to think that I'm being fair by giving them notice and trying to find a replacement and in return I hope they can be fair to me. |
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rapier
Joined: 16 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2003 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Nice one Kristy. hope it all works out for you. |
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some waygug-in
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| mack the knife wrote: |
| The ads you read on the internet are NOT contracts. Of course they don't mention every little detail, such as "You're supposed to work the 12 months to receive the free apartment and airfare, dummy. Why would we give free crap to your sorry, just-out-of-college ass." That's the exact wording in every contract I have ever read (dozens). |
How many contracts have you read? She said there was no mention of the airfare in the contract either.
Of course you and I know what it really means, but to a newbie looking at their first job.... It looks like the only thing that is conditional to finishing the 12 months is the final bonus.
In my books, that's false advertising. They could be sued for that sort of thing back home.
And thanks for the "dummy" comment.
It was a shocker to me to be told that even after working 11 months, I might still be forced to pay back the airfare. What I am saying is, It just ain't right. The school should have been honest and told her about that condition in the first place, not wait until they are afraid she will try and leave, and then dump it on her like some kind of punishment.
Anyway, the school holds all the cards. Not much to do but wait and see.
Cheers |
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mack the knife
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: standing right behind you...
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2003 6:42 pm Post subject: |
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Some Waygug-in,
You're not the dummy. The wet-behind-the-ears-just-out-of-South-Dakota-State-with-a-degree-in-basket-weaving monkeys who think they are getting a free ride to Korea are the dummies. Who could possibly assume that they would be getting free airfare and housing for working, say, 6 or 7 months? Only an eeeeediot. |
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