Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Justin Hale]

[Adventurer]

Justin, are the only human beings on this planet to ever be "civilized" European whites or North American whites? I don't think so. The Indus Valley had an advanced civilization long before Europe did, and they were a spiritual people. They did not have the Catholic Church, but they were known to be spiritual. The same could be said about China in the past.
The Muslims also had a flowering civilization except when they became very tribal and dogmatic and then imploded. Many prominent scientists in Europe throughout the ages believed in God. You are stating that in some cases the church was against scientists, but that was the Catholic Church of the time. Certainly, some Jewish and Christian religious authorities were not necessarily the friends of scientific progress anymore than many of the imams who inhabit the Middle East. When religion seeks to be extremely controlling without allowing adequate individual expression and freedom that would, naturally, retard cultural progress.

[ED209]

[Justin Hale]

[Kuros]

[Adventurer]

[Justin Hale]

[Unposter]

Kind of simple, but here goes, a brief explanation why I think science is a complete rejection of Christian education (think 17th century or so)

There is a whole cosmology of the origins of the universe and man in the Bible. In addition, many Chrisitian scholars added their own interpretations about how the planets and stars moved, what was inside the human body, how the personality worked etc... It was all based upon religious teaching.

Early scientists, many of whom were people of faith, used their new methodologies and experiments to see if these ideas were correct. Basically, they were all wrong.

Now, the Church could have accepted this knowledge as an advancement of Christian understanding but instead opposed it as well, the Church is infalible and the Bible is literal.

Basically, the Romans knew much or had come to conclusions that many scientists were now coming to. Much of this Roman knowledge was lost with the sacking of Rome and the insularism of much of Europe that allowed Christianity to grow. Many historians call these the "dark ages," as little was understood, even who was over the next hill. Things started to change with the enlightenment, or the light being turned on from the dark. Learning grew again, and Europe pretty much re-learned what had been lost.

In many ways, the growth of Christianity in Europe was an anomaly or at best an over-lay of traditional beliefs. Most Christrian holidays over lap pagan holidays, taking their symbols, and substituting new words for old ideas. Even today, there are many Catholic Saints that have become representations of indigenous deities in Central and South America.

It was Saint Augustine that turned Christians away from the here and now and learning to a more inward, spiritual sect. For him, it was all about the Kingdom of Heaven. Most of the Christian Church followed.

[Omkara]

[KirbyMagnus]

I am an agnostic but I side with the atheists.

That said, you're using a graph to illustrate your point.

A graph I ask thee, throw in the odd statistic if you like but we are never going to bring people round to our way of thinking if we use bloody graphs.

[nicholas_chiasson]

[Omkara]

Me spoked too soonly! Here's a pretty fart smeller. . .uh, I mean, pretty smart feller!

Really, a rare case of christian intelligence:

http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/112

His position is finally far closer to that which spinoza might advocate. . .

[Justin Hale]

[Kuros]

[Justin Hale]

Kuros, your arguments on this matter make as much sense as 2+2=46 and reading them reminds me - not that I need reminding - how grateful I am that my parents didn't tell me what yours told you when you were a kid (and how I don't live in Kentucky). When Christianity took over Europe, scientific and engineering advancement virtually stopped. During the Black Death in the 1300s, the masses turned to the Church instead of medicine. The Church explained that the plague came as an act of God, not nature, as a punishment for sins of not obeying Church authority. Every one of the the scientists that Christians love to cite lived during the Renaissance or the Age of Enlightenment when the Church began to lose its power and the populace began to wake up from its religious stupor. None of them lived during the Dark Ages. You acknowlefe this and yet believe science, progress, modernity was Christianity-motivated!