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tsgarp
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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 Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:46 am Post subject: |
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Yeah but old maddox is just being his usual sarcastic self 
The picture on the bottom is classic |
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Scott in HK
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: now in Incheon..haven't changed my name yet
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 4:53 am Post subject: |
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wow, thanks for telling me how I should raise my kid!
Were you ever smacked as a kid? Well I was, and I do think it's necessary at times. If you tell your kid: "don't touch the stove, it's hot", they won't listen, and only after they've burned themselves will they get it. You can talk and reason as much as possible with a child, and while sometimes that gets through, other times you just have to spank em.
Non-violent forms of punishment are necessary, but sometimes you just gotta give em a swift hard whack to the ass. |
well...thanks for telling me how to raise my kids...no...i was never hit as a child...and no...i don't hit my children...
what they hell was 'your kid' doing in the kitchen when the stove was on...my daughter is two and knows not to go into the kitchen when daddy is cooking...and we know enough to watch her when we are in the kitchen...
seeing as the kid will probably forget the whole thing by the next day...are you going to continue to hit them every time they reach for the stove...a smack is useless for kids before they reach the age where they realize their actions have consequences...smacking them before that does little good... |
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ryleeys
Joined: 22 Dec 2003
Location: Columbia, MD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:04 am Post subject: |
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I was spanked as a kid... never hit anywhere but on my rear. As I see it, I never smoked, never did drugs, and never drank until college... never got in fights and got decent grades too... I was sent to my room on a regular basis, but if I really screwed up, my parents took everything but my mattress and my school books out of my room (didn't have video games anyway).
Personally, my kids will get a smack on the rear if they do something bad and should know better (and a 2 year old doesn't know better, but when you're 5, you better start learning to pay attention).
Actually, other favorite punishments my parents gave me involved manual labor. Screw up one day, all weekend long I was out pulling weeds or moving rocks or some such...
I don't think I'm a screwup, but I'm also not a hippy that thinks a kid should get rewarded for putting his dishes in the dishwasher... that's not how life works and I don't want my kid thinking that you get rewarded for anything other than hard work.
(talk about a random rant, I have no idea where that came from) |
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yoda
Joined: 19 Jan 2003
Location: Incheon, South Korea
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 5:09 am Post subject: |
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Skarp said:
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Violence is fundamentally wrong and an abuse of human rights.
Even hitting your own kids is basically wrong and you shouldn't do it. |
To which, Mr. Pink replied:
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human rights is what has led the PC police to shove their beliefs down everyone's throats. |
Well. This is why the term human rights should not be bandied about for every little possible situation were someone gets a booboo in some way. Do not use the term human rights lightly or they will become diluted to mean nothing. Humans Rights are generally meant to include only the most horrible abuses, such as freedom from torture, freedom from arbitrary imprisonment, freedom from slavery and freedom from discrimination. . .
Human rights is NOT a tool of the PC police, NOR is it about dictating the way we raise our children (I HAVE spanked my kids on a handful of occasions). Either view does the victims of human rights violations an injustice.
The Universal Declaration of Human Rights
Read this, and I think there are very few 'human rights' outlined here that we would disagree on and for the majority we would agree on them whole heartedly.
To prove the case that spanking is a violation of human rights you would have to show that spanking degrades children and threatens their well being. From what I've seen, that is hardly the case. However, the argument that human rights are 'PC" is just crap. This document was drafted 40 years before 'PC' become part of our vocabulary. It came in response to an era of unthinkable killing. |
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tsgarp
Joined: 01 Dec 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 6:12 am Post subject: |
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| Hey Mr Pink, don't give it away. Some people actually take him seriously. I'd like to generate some hate mail for him from people off this site. |
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jaebea
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: SYD
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 7:02 am Post subject: |
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Sorta back to the OP, I was talking to a guy who just finished his 2 years 4 months of conscripted military duty. He had served in the Navy.
He said random beatings were just part and parcel of the army life. They'd get marched out by their seniors to the showers. Then to hide the noise of the beatings, they'd turn all the water on, then beat the crap outta them.
Another moment is when soldiers first introduce themselves..
"Where you from boy?"
"Seoul"
"You think the whole of Seoul is your house? You smartarse, I oughtta beat the shit out of you"
And they got the shit beat out of them.
The next senior asks
"Where you from boy?"
"Seoul, Gangnam-gu"
"Rich boy huh? Think you own all of Gangnam-Gu? I oughtta beat the shit out of you"
And they got the shit beat out of them. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the correct answer to the question.. :)
jae. |
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Mr. Pink
Joined: 21 Oct 2003
Location: China
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 12:45 pm Post subject: |
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| jaebea wrote: |
Sorta back to the OP, I was talking to a guy who just finished his 2 years 4 months of conscripted military duty. He had served in the Navy.
He said random beatings were just part and parcel of the army life. They'd get marched out by their seniors to the showers. Then to hide the noise of the beatings, they'd turn all the water on, then beat the crap outta them.
Another moment is when soldiers first introduce themselves..
"Where you from boy?"
"Seoul"
"You think the whole of Seoul is your house? You smartarse, I oughtta beat the *beep* out of you"
And they got the *beep* beat out of them.
The next senior asks
"Where you from boy?"
"Seoul, Gangnam-gu"
"Rich boy huh? Think you own all of Gangnam-Gu? I oughtta beat the *beep* out of you"
And they got the *beep* beat out of them. Doesn't take a genius to figure out the correct answer to the question.. 
jae. |
Funny thing about the military: You are an adult when you join. Wonder if any people hit back. I mean what are they going to do, it's not like they can fire you (In Korea I mean)
On the opposite end of the spectrum, my buddy in the US army tells me soldiers can call a "time out" and go sit with a chaplain if it gets too rough during training or on the job. THEY ARE NOT ALLOWED TO HIT in the US military anymore, dudes get fired for that now.
My friends assessment is the US military is full of pansies, and once the older hard soldiers leave, it will be worse off than it is now.
About me and my PC comment: the comment is geared at those who thing every little thing is a human right: not what the actual accord says. |
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Skarp
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 13, 2004 3:47 pm Post subject: |
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I take the point about dilution of 'human rights' and it's effect on the ongoing struggle to end the heinous abuses outlined in the charter.
I still feel that hitting children is an abuse of power and I don't like it. I don't have my own children. I am not a teacher of children. I am thus not up against the dilemna of disciplining children.
Many many children are physically abused in the home and at school. It is wrong. While it is felt OK to smack or otherwise punish your own children then it is harder to fight the genuine abuse.
And it's just wrong to win an argument by force. You haven't won or achieved anything. It's a lazy parent's solution.
Human rights abuse in the armed services is a hidden evil and another reason to end conscription (though it exists in all-volunteer mercenary armies like the British forces too)
This kind of bullying is rife where freedom of individuals is curtailed or limited and where authority is corrupt or not doing it's job.
I fail to see how bullying/abuse in an army makes for a more efficient combat force. Did someone really suggest it did?
So - basically I stand by my view, but accept the points about dilution and admit my standpoint is theoretical.
Skarp |
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