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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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R-Seoul

Joined: 23 Aug 2006 Location: your place
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:24 am Post subject: |
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| This is Korean bashing, or racism as some people call it, at its worst. Time to lock the thread... |
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Ilsanman

Joined: 15 Aug 2003 Location: Bucheon, Korea
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Since America's savings rate is in the negatives, it's not that hard to be better than that.
Last I heard, Korea was also in the negative. Or barely over 2%. It's also very low.
| cdninkorea wrote: |
| itaewonguy wrote: |
Did you know 80% or more Koreans live off minus bank? Most Koreans are in the red, all money goes to education and living, they don�t all save a lot.., many rely on help from parents too.
Did you notice Koreans don�t take vacations like people in the west.
They don�t go out to fancy restaurants, buy boats, jet skis, holiday homes etc... Americans seem better off, because they spend more on finer things... koreans dont really... well of course the small percentage who are rich do... car or designer bag etc.. |
Actually, the savings rate in Korea is higher than that in the US. I can't be bothered finding the source, but I've read in reputable places that while it's not great, the savings rate in Korea is higher than in the US.
Also, the percentage of Koreans who travel abroad is very high. |
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mnhnhyouh

Joined: 21 Nov 2006 Location: The Middle Kingdom
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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Very few Koreans traveled overseas before '88 as you needed government permission to do so. As a result, even after the restrictions were relaxed, few people did, as they didnt know anybody who did.
However, that was some time ago, and now many Koreans travel. I bet the President had been to a few countries before being elected.
h |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 6:42 am Post subject: |
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I understand where some of the posters are coming from. Korea has so many industries and businesses with huge management problems and there is so much mismanagement. That is not to say, the U.S., compared to the US that used to exist is more and more mismanaged.
We're lucky the US has held together. Greed is destroying America, and there is too much greed in Korea combined with closed-mindedness, and that could be disasterous for Korea.
I disagree that Koreans aren't innovative. Obviously, they know how to build decent cell phones. They know how to learn from others. Other countries can come up with the same electronics, however. Korea needs better economic leadership and some positive cultural changes, but Korea has done an amazing job in terms of building its economy, but it is too similar to Mexico in terms of being dominated by certain industries and families.
I don't think we should wish ill-will on Korea and Koreans.
I do think the country is seriously lacking certain fundamental concepts of modern management that one would associated with most 1st world countries.
Essentially, some posters are saying they want Korea to sink, and that they are uniformly horrible people and don't deserve prosperity.
What countries truly deserve prosperity in this world where the Earth's resources are being used improperly and people are exploited and greed has almost led to a collapse of the financial markets? |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Location: Easy Street.
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| What a stupid question. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 12:44 pm Post subject: Re: Why are the Koreans rich? |
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| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Cornfed wrote: |
| I don't see why they should be. They don't seem to have an awful lot going for them. I suppose it must just be that the global elite wills it so. But still, why them? |
You say Koreans shouldn't be rich. Then WHO should be? Whites? Blacks? Indians?
This thread is ignorant. |
Yes, it is.
Opinions are like assholes, and every asshole has one. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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A very simple rundown of the history.
JFK Administration decided to make South Korea the frontline of their economic Asian frontline. $12billion flushed into Korea over roughly a decade, only to end with the Nixon administration.
Park Chun-hee gathered some of this money and gave out very, very low-interest loans to what he thought were industrial successes. Thus rose the Chaebol. Park Chun-hee rewarded success and growth; the better you did, the more loans you would get, and at lower rates.
There was a healthy dose of protectionism leveraged on export to the American market. In the 70s it was light industry, and by the 80s it was the pre-Intel semiconductor computer chips. The Korean economy exploded from the mid-70s to the late-80s, surpassing North Korea during that time.
I await those who know better to rip this apart. But at least we'll get somewhere. |
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jkelly80

Joined: 13 Jun 2007 Location: you boys like mexico?
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros, you're an even handed SOB. |
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jajdude
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
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Posted: Fri Sep 26, 2008 10:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Fishead soup wrote: |
I haven't met any Koreans who live in a Western style house.
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I saw one street once in Ilsan, only once on a visit years ago. It was a Western style street, houses, driveways, lawns I believe. Those who know Ilsan can confirm this, or did I forget my pills that day? |
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chotaerang
Joined: 23 Mar 2004 Location: In the gym
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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| R-Seoul wrote: |
| This is Korean bashing, or racism as some people call it, at its worst. Time to lock the thread... |
Asking how a country changed from poor to rich is neither racist nor bashing. To the answer pool, I'd add that Korea was fortunate to have in Park Chung Hee, a dictator who was not a kleptomaniac. He used the reparations paid by Japan in the 1965 to lay down infrastructure and start up Posco. From there, he and his planners consistently followed a mercantilist trade policy that got Korea through the critical period of building 'national champions'. The rest of the explanation comes, I think, from the fact that these guys have an impressive ability to focus, and do what they have to do to succeed. |
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Intrepid
Joined: 13 May 2004 Location: Yongin
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 7:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Konglishman wrote: |
| This is a silly thread. Go read some history about Korea from the 60's to the 80's and I think your question will largely be answered. Sure America did its part to help support Korea, but more importantly, Korea had strong leadership that was very intent on developing the country. |
Exactly. And the above mention of Park Chung Hee, he of "Steel is national power."
What they did between 1960 and 1988 was amazing. In 1960 Burma and the Philippines were the "rising stars" of Asia.
Probably a bit dated now, unless it's been revised, but "Troubled Tiger" is a good history of the Park era. |
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Pyongshin Sangja

Joined: 20 Apr 2003 Location: I love baby!
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
You say Koreans shouldn't be rich. Then WHO should be? Whites? Blacks? Indians?
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Pkang and KOREANMAN, should is used as a modal to mean both suggestion:
You shouldn't smoke so much. You should exercise more.
and chance or probability:
I should be at the restaurant by 7 pm. It shouldn't rain tomorrow, according to the weather man.
So, relax. It isn't about a recommendation, advice or suggestion. He's just saying that he thinks that Koreans have become rich against great odds or that it is surprising that they are. I don't necessarily agree with him, but I would like you to know that there are multiple ways to use the word "should."
Thank you. |
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Adventurer

Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2008 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Intrepid wrote: |
| Konglishman wrote: |
| This is a silly thread. Go read some history about Korea from the 60's to the 80's and I think your question will largely be answered. Sure America did its part to help support Korea, but more importantly, Korea had strong leadership that was very intent on developing the country. |
Exactly. And the above mention of Park Chung Hee, he of "Steel is national power."
What they did between 1960 and 1988 was amazing. In 1960 Burma and the Philippines were the "rising stars" of Asia.
Probably a bit dated now, unless it's been revised, but "Troubled Tiger" is a good history of the Park era. |
If Park didn't endeavor to follow some kind of Japanese model, Korea would not have modernized the way it did. In a sense, Park was closed, and in another sense he seemed open. He thought it was a good model to follow. As I understand, there was some political reprochement between Japan, and investment from both Japan and the US helped bring in the capital needed to modernize. Having the right kind of leader makes a huge difference. Having the wrong kind of leader makes a big difference in the wrong way like having George Bush in the U.S., who should never have been elected by the electorate. |
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asylum seeker
Joined: 22 Jul 2007 Location: On your computer screen.
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: Re: Why are the Koreans rich? |
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| Cornfed wrote: |
| pkang0202 wrote: |
| Cornfed wrote: |
| I don't see why they should be. They don't seem to have an awful lot going for them. I suppose it must just be that the global elite wills it so. But still, why them? |
You say Koreans shouldn't be rich. |
Actually, I didn't say that. Hopefully you don't teach reading comprehension.
| Quote: |
You say Koreans shouldn't be rich. Then WHO should be? Whites? Blacks? Indians?
This thread is ignorant. |
There would be a few reasons why a country would be expected to be rich. One would be if it had valuable natural resources, so for example it is no surprise that Norway and Kuwait are rich. Another would be if it could steal resources from actual or de facto colonies, as was and to some extent still is the case with Western Europe and America. Another would be a culture conducive to innovation and effective orgainsation, which for whatever reason seems to have been largely the province of white males over the last 500 years.
Koreans seem to lack any of these advantages, so in the normal course of events you would expect them to be dirt poor. It seems clear that others have deliberately made them rich. I'm just wondering why that should be the case. |
This is racist crap. Look at Japan, this country has innovated a huge amount in terms of electronic products in the last few decades and is definitely a culture 'conducive to effective organisation'. You don't know what you're talking about. |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sun Sep 28, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: Re: Why are the Koreans rich? |
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| asylum seeker wrote: |
| This is racist crap. Look at Japan, this country has innovated a huge amount in terms of electronic products in the last few decades and is definitely a culture 'conducive to effective organisation'. You don't know what you're talking about. |
No, in saying that most innovation over the last 500 years has come from white males I was merely stating an obvious fact. I'm not necessarily suggesting that we're intrinsically racially superior - after all, until the late middle ages north-western Europe was the most technologically backward Old World civilization and contributed virtually no technological innovations until the last millennium. It may be that the circumstances of most of the last few hundred years were simply in Europe's favour.
As to the Japanese innovating, it seems to me that they have perfected and marketed other people's technology rather that innovated. For example, they bought the rights to transistors from the Americans and watch making technology from the Swiss. As for effective organizations, these were largely based on Deming's "Total Quality Management" approach and imposed on the Japanese by force after the war. Before that, Japanese organizations were management-heavy and designed so that no-one would have to take responsibility for anything and therefore lose face.
The proximal reasons for the success of Korea and Japan are fairly clear. The question I am asking is why these countries were allowed to adopt sensible policies while other countries were "IMFed" or otherwise sold out. For example, New Zealand adopted more or less the opposite policies in the 80s and 90s to the ones that had made Korea rich, with the result that we have been made poor. I don't necessarily believe that the Koreans deserve to be poor, but neither do we. Surely this seemingly baffling state of affairs is worth looking into. |
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