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OiGirl
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: Hoke-y-gun
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 Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 2:37 am Post subject: |
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| Kimchi Cha Cha wrote: |
| I have had some funny queries on my nationality since I've been here. I've been told my face looks Chinese (I can't see it myself but thanks anyway); asked if I'm American, Canadian, British (all fair enough assumptions); Spanish, German (reasonable, creative assumptions); or Filipino (just what have you been smokin'!). |
I get interesting guesses in the bathhouse. One woman swore up and down I was Colombian! How many Colombians are hanging around in Gwangju? Another time I was told by a passel of ajumas that I had to be Russian. When I insisted I was American, they told me, "American women don't come to the bathhouse, but Russian women do." |
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Alias
Joined: 24 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:29 am Post subject: |
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| katydid wrote: |
Way too often. 
"Lussya saram," but have been asked if I am from Australia or England. |
What does "Lussya saram" mean? |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Hate to point this out..but..we are foreigners here.... |
It's not a requirement to read my posts, but I already pointed that out in detail. |
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Psy
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Location: Hongdae
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:16 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| What does "Lussya saram" mean |
Russian person |
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Psy
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Location: Hongdae
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:22 am Post subject: |
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People have different levels of tolerance to actions and comments by people. I believe that I hardly take offense to most people because I deny the fact that they purposely are being rude no matter the case. Children are easily forgiven. "Look! a bird!" "Look! a waegookin!" They are growing up. Koreans are very nice people, as are most people in general wherever I have been. (And i'm sure places I haven't been to as well) Most everyone I have met here and become close to are really cool and hella nice. They "may" be a bit stubborn and "slightly" hostile to foreigners. The implication is that the word "waegookin" is a label as in "Asian" "Black" "European" to stereotype, but this is not the case. It does in fact mean foreigner, but it does not carry any other meaning to it. It is not meant to be taken as offensive or derogatory. I believe that this is the point that dogbert is taking offense to.
You take it as "Look at the ugly fat pig"
I'll take it as "Look at that cute puppy dog"
"But I don't want to be stereotyped as a puppy dog' "Oh shut up!"
Sorry to sound preachy, I've been teaching for too long  |
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lush72
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: I am Penalty Kick!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 4:38 am Post subject: not daily but weekly |
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| it no longer irritates me..... |
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Homer
Guest
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:13 am Post subject: |
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Saw that dogbert.
Just seems not many others did, hence the basic reminder. |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:40 am Post subject: |
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| Psy wrote: |
You take it as "Look at the ugly fat pig"
I'll take it as "Look at that cute puppy dog" |
No.
It's what it is, not what we "take" it as. And what it is is this:
"Look at that person who was obviously born in a different country, probably America, and therefore is definitely not one of us!"
And now, as one Mr. Thanks would say,
school's out. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 5:50 am Post subject: |
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I get 'waygooginida!' once every few days. I get an 'excuse me' from behind every two days or so, mostly by a guy and frequently with his arm around a girlfriend (actually just got that an hour ago).
A friend of mine told me that a textbook she had used in school had a short section on encountering foreigners. What it said was, "When approaching foreigners, realize that some of them speak Korean, so when first approaching them ask "Do you speak English?" and then go from there." - which is a bit puzzling. If somebody asked me that I would say yes, and then we'd be speaking English regardless of my K language ability. I wonder which textbook that was, as it's just hearsay from Mithridates until I have a copy of it to back my story up. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 3:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Psy wrote: |
| The implication is that the word "waegookin" is a label as in "Asian" "Black" "European" to stereotype, but this is not the case. It does in fact mean foreigner, but it does not carry any other meaning to it. It is not meant to be taken as offensive or derogatory. I believe that this is the point that dogbert is taking offense to. |
I also do not believe that it is not meant to be taken as offensive or derogatory, but it is used to stereotype. How many times do you hear something like, "Foreigners eat hamburgers every day", or "Foreigners don't eat spicy food", or "Foreigners don't live with their families"? I don't like to be rude, but sometimes will reply that I doubt that Indians eat hamburgers any day, Thais eat spicy food, and for all I know, people in Malawi live together in extended family groups.
When you, wherever in the world you find yourself, see the world first and foremost as:
Us (~70 million Koreans); and
Them (~5,930,000,000 "foreigners"),
then stereotyping is inevitable.
And again, Corporal is right on. |
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jaebea
Joined: 21 Sep 2003
Location: SYD
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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In such a homogeneous society like Korea, I guess this sort of thing is to be expected.. still doesn't make it any more pleasant.
Something different comes along, challenging what you know or are used to. Straight away, you're out of your comfort zone. It's usually worthy of remark from even the best of us.
Most of the Korean grown ups haven't had any sort of prolonged contact with foreigners, whether at school, or at work, or at their local shopping centre. As exposure to foreign people grows, then this sorta thing will happen less frequently.
That's my guess anyway. :D
There was a great ad on Australian TV several years ago. An asian girl had come over for a BBQ at her friends house. The friends' family were all out the back and the dad was cooking and the mum was prepping. The dad jovially asks where the little asian girl was born. The question is clearly constructed to imply "What country were you born in". And the asian girl replies "Ballarat actually", which happens to be a rural town in Victoria with a high Chinese population with origins from the goldrush in the 1800's. The asian girl's friend looks mighty embarrassed and there's general laughter at the expense of the father.
My (long winded) point is that, yes, foreigners will always be "foreign" and different, at least until there are more foreigners in Korea, who aren't just there to teach kids and make money, before going back home.
jae.
edit: Man I need a holiday. The flow of logic in my posts is totally incomprehensible. |
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Psy
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Location: Hongdae
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
No.
It's what it is, not what we "take" it as. And what it is is this:
"Look at that person who was obviously born in a different country, probably America, and therefore is definitely not one of us!" |
This does not even deserve a response, but let me point out the contradictions to you in case you do not see it. This is NOT what it is. YOU, personally, and "perhaps" some others feel this way and take the word "waegookin" in this manner. I do not take it this way. But wait, you state that this IS, what it is. So I must! You generalize that all people, children, adults, koreans, canadians, inuit, etc. will take this as it IS. Because, you obviously have concluded that this IS fact, and therefore indisputable.
Read the first sentence of my previous post and perhaps you will get a sense of where this part of your personality stands. I can already tell that you are closed-minded to other peoples opinions and only support those that agree with you. You failed to see the whole point of the post, as the end was in jest and you quote that snippet. I also take that you may be either fairly ethnocentric or trying but failing to be sarcastic as your "probably America" is redundant. Does posting in this attitude remind you of someone?
The point was that the word waegookin is NOT a label. But I CAN understand why it may be taken this way. I am trying to encourage people to not take offense to this, because if you do, in each and every instance, you will either end up hating all Koreans in this world, or end up in a mental institution. Many of us have already become used to this and simply ignore it or smile, or whatever, depending on their personality. This was my point. Not a stupid discussion on how you or I take offense to different things.
You can be a baby for as long as you wish. |
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Homer wrote: |
| Hate to point this out..but..we are foreigners here.... |
No, we are more than just foreigners. We are ALIENS. That is what is on the cards that The Planet of Korea gave us. So, if we are aliens to them, then they are aliens to us. The children are the most honest. I point to them and say wegein, they point back and say alien.
---------------------------THE CHILDREN KNOW THE TRUTH------------------ |
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Psy
Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Location: Hongdae
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I also do not believe that it is not meant to be taken as offensive or derogatory, but it is used to stereotype. How many times do you hear something like, "Foreigners eat hamburgers every day", or "Foreigners don't eat spicy food", or "Foreigners don't live with their families"? I don't like to be rude, but sometimes will reply that I doubt that Indians eat hamburgers any day, Thais eat spicy food, and for all I know, people in Malawi live together in extended family groups.
When you, wherever in the world you find yourself, see the world first and foremost as:
Us (~70 million Koreans); and
Them (~5,930,000,000 "foreigners"),
then stereotyping is inevitable. |
The difference is that many of the industrialized countries such as the U.S., Singapore, or Canada are composed of heterogenous societies. We may assume that because this is so, people have become "used" to living and being around other minorities. However, we all know that this is untrue. Racism, stereotyping, and discrimination occurs in all societies albeit homogenous or heterogeneous. Korea can be classified as a very homogenous society and the media among other sources may portray them as being extremely hostile towards foreigners. This in itself is a stereotype. I, myself have fallen into this whole before and could have accepted this. Stereotypes are everywhere. It depends on what you take to be a stereotype. "Athletes are all buff." May be taken as a stereotype, sure. But do you think they take offense to this? It is the divergence of races, colors, creeds, and even gender that make us unique and the goal of dominance of one "category" over another is the cause of stereotyping. "All girls love shopping."  At least mine does.
The word "waegookin" was created way before koreans ever came across them. It was a word to distinguish, not categorize. You honestly don't believe that every korean that points at you and says waegookin is "out to get you" or "hates you". However, I can understand your gripes. Just as I understand you, I hope you can learn to understand them. All it takes is time. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Dec 16, 2003 9:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Psy wrote: |
| Quote: |
I also do not believe that it is not meant to be taken as offensive or derogatory, but it is used to stereotype. How many times do you hear something like, "Foreigners eat hamburgers every day", or "Foreigners don't eat spicy food", or "Foreigners don't live with their families"? I don't like to be rude, but sometimes will reply that I doubt that Indians eat hamburgers any day, Thais eat spicy food, and for all I know, people in Malawi live together in extended family groups.
When you, wherever in the world you find yourself, see the world first and foremost as:
Us (~70 million Koreans); and
Them (~5,930,000,000 "foreigners"),
then stereotyping is inevitable. |
The difference is that many of the industrialized countries such as the U.S., Singapore, or Canada are composed of heterogenous societies. We may assume that because this is so, people have become "used" to living and being around other minorities. However, we all know that this is untrue. Racism, stereotyping, and discrimination occurs in all societies albeit homogenous or heterogeneous. Korea can be classified as a very homogenous society and the media among other sources may portray them as being extremely hostile towards foreigners. This in itself is a stereotype. I, myself have fallen into this whole before and could have accepted this. Stereotypes are everywhere. It depends on what you take to be a stereotype. "Athletes are all buff." May be taken as a stereotype, sure. But do you think they take offense to this? It is the divergence of races, colors, creeds, and even gender that make us unique and the goal of dominance of one "category" over another is the cause of stereotyping. "All girls love shopping." At least mine does.
The word "waegookin" was created way before koreans ever came across them. It was a word to distinguish, not categorize. You honestly don't believe that every korean that points at you and says waegookin is "out to get you" or "hates you". However, I can understand your gripes. Just as I understand you, I hope you can learn to understand them. All it takes is time. |
I hate myself for responding, but you are not getting my points.
I don't say it's racism.
I do understand that the word exists and why it exists and what it means when it is used. I never said anything about "hating" or "being out to get me", reading comprehension be damned.
As far as time, I've been studying Korean for over fifteen years and have lived here six. I don't need your patronizing. And you don't understand me anyway, obviously.
Anyhoo, my original points were:
1. I don't understand why so often the fact that I'm not Korean has to be pointed out. When I go to buy a pair of replacement suit pants does the assistant, when he calls another store to see if they're in stock, have to say "I have a waegooksaram customer here who..."? Again, think about it: would the clerk be inclined to say, "I have a one-eyed woman here" or "I have a midget here" or "I have a mixed-blood kid here", etc.? Or, even taking your assertion that it might be a positive stereotype/label, should he say "I have a gorgeous green-eyed woman here"? Yes, it's a small thing, but I'm going to rant about it now anyway.
2. When I am in the country of my citizenship, I resent being called or referred to as a "foreigner" by Koreans. I dislike the idea that Koreans are Koreans wherever they are and that the other 99% of us are "foreigners", wherever we are. This is not a matter of the word itself, but the worldview it represents, which I find reinforces ideas at odds with what I consider to be the more preferable view that we are human beings first, ethnicities second (or third or so on). |
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