|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Doutdes
Joined: 14 Oct 2005
|
 Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:50 am Post subject: Re: Instead of life terms in prison |
 |
|
| Koveras wrote: |
| Why not slavery? It would be more productive, at least. |
We used to have that in the states. It was part of the Jim Crow laws and was put in place to continue slavery in the south. Prison slaves could be bought and sold and it became a profitable business.
And that's the problem, it was a business, not a method to reform or hold criminals. And as a business, the slavers had every incentive to increase the number "prisoners." So, it's not the best plan if you want to reduce crime. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
Forward Observer
Joined: 13 Jan 2009
Location: FOB Gloria
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 1:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Fox wrote: |
Boring day at work, here's a possible response to your question:
1) Social circumstances or mental health issues are ultimately responsible for serious criminal behavior.
2) In the case of mental health issues individuals are generally put into mental institutions rather than prison (at least that is what our legal system calls for), so those individuals can be ignored for this argument, leaving only those who commit crimes based on social circumstances.
3) The social circumstances responsible for serious crime should be eliminated.
4) Anything which makes reducing or eliminating the social circumstances responsible for serious crime less pressing or important should be avoided.
5) Using life-termers as slaves for society's benefit makes reducing or eliminating the social circumstances responsible for serious crime less pressing.
6) Using life-termers as slaves should be avoided.
Explanation of #1: anyone who commits a serious crime does so for a reason; most of us do not go around indulging in crimes beyond the most petty of levels (read: speeding, shop lifting, etc). Things like murder, extreme violence, and so forth (read: anything you'd get a life sentence for), where not caused by mental illness, inevitably come from our upbringing or situation. I think this is fairly easy to accept as true.
Explanations of #2 and #3: fairly self-explanatory and obvious I would imagine.
Explanation of #4: humans are incentive based. Something being the "right thing" in theory often isn't enough for them to DO the right thing, particularly if it would not directly impact their lives in a positive fashion. Removing or reducing the social circumstances that cause sane yet serious criminals to emerge might be good for society, but that doesn't mean it would positively impact the lives of each individual in that society. I personally have never been touched by serious crime, and I likely never will be. Many people are in my position. It is very easy for such people to look at criminals as nothing more than people who made immoral choices, without considering what turned them into such people. Thus, such individuals have no incentive beyond compassion to try to help solve the problem at hand, and compassion in many cases is insufficient, particularly given the very abstract and vast nature of the problem in this case.
Explanation of #5: if our society actively benefits from "criminal slaves" that in and of itself provides some disincentive to attack this issue at it's core. If our society further becomes DEPENDENT on said "criminal slaves" then there is actually an incentive -- regardless of how unethical that incentive might be -- to increase the social circumstances that lead to sane yet serious criminals emerging.
In summary, these people should be a drain on society, because by ensuring they are a drain on society, we maximize the incentive to fix the problem that continues to make such individuals behave the way they do. If anything, they should be more of a drain, not less of one.
If a child is born and is turned into a productive, conscientious citizen by our social system, our social system benefits from it. Why should our social system also benefit when it turns said children into dangerous criminals? Honestly, it shouldn't, because it failed those individuals at least much as those individuals failed society.
Didn't proof read, tell me if you notice any errors please. |
You sort of left out things we pick up or learn from our families, like integrity and many other traits.
I tend to agree with the assessment of Stanton Samenow PhD about the nature of the criminal mind. Summed up in one sentence: It's about selfishness ... the different manifestations of criminal behavior is just a matter of style.
That is a simple, but profound statement. Because it is both the greatest strength and the greatest weakness of the criminal and the violent. Strength because it usually gives him an overwhelming degree of focus and dedication. Weakness, because it makes him both predictable and easy to out think -- once you understand how he thinks and acts.
All too often the subject of criminal and dangerous behavior -- especially the aftermath -- is muddled up with ideology, rhetoric and even politics. Often the actions of the criminal and violent person is explained away as a result of injustice, oppression or societal failure. However, by looking at crime and violence from the perspective of extreme selfishness and lack of concern for others, you begin to see more of the 'charging lion' nature of the subject.
And make no mistake, that criminal coming at you is like a charging lion ... intent on eating you alive. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fox
Joined: 04 Mar 2009
|
| Posted: Mon Mar 09, 2009 3:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Forward Observer wrote: |
| You sort of left out things we pick up or learn from our families, like integrity and many other traits. |
No, I did not. Things we pick up from our families, just like things we pick up from our friends, teachers, the media, and so forth, are part of social circumstance.
I thought that went without saying given family interaction is, by its very nature, social. I apologize for taking that for granted.
| Forward Observer wrote: |
| I tend to agree with the assessment of Stanton Samenow PhD about the nature of the criminal mind. Summed up in one sentence: It's about selfishness ... the different manifestations of criminal behavior is just a matter of style. |
Agreed, and people become selfish in that way and to extremes such that they end up warranting life sentences for reasons. Those reasons don't simply materialize out of no where. They emerge from the context we are constantly immersed in from the first day of our lives: human social interaction. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
